Major problems with CC messages and OS 5.0.3.12660

    I just loaded OS 4.2.2.12590 and I'm experiencing some major issues with stomp/effect block control via control change messages.
    Despite I didn't change anything on my MIDI controller (Rocktron All Access), sometimes the KPA just doesn't react to CC messages.
    I select my preset and sometimes the relevant stomp/effect blocks turn on, sometimes they don't.
    This makes this OS version completely unusable.
    Anybody else experiencing the same issue?
    Meanwhile I'll have to go back to 4.0.6.12421, which was working flawlessly for me.

    Are you using performance mode?


    I discovered that when you change From a Rig in one performance to a Rig in another performance, the KPA has problems to handle following Midi-Messages... seems like it has too much to do to load the rest of the performance. When switching within one performance: no problem. In Browse-Mode: no problem.


    I think the Rocktron All Access sends the program change followed by CCs (i.e. to turn on or off stomp boxes).


    So in my scenario the kemper would handle the CCs wrong - sometimes.


    I don´t use performance-mode, so i don´t care about this problem - i just discovered it.


    Martin

    There is indeed a change in behaviour: if you are switching rigs twice within 350ms in Browse Mode, the rig is delay loaded and it is possible that CCs are not handled then in correct order. This is to prevent freezing if you overload the Profiler with Program Change messages. Can you tell what you're actually sending?

    Quote from timo

    There is indeed a change in behaviour: if you are switching rigs twice within 350ms in Browse Mode, the rig is delay loaded and it is possible that CCs are not handled then in correct order. This is to prevent freezing if you overload the Profiler with Program Change messages. Can you tell what you're actually sending?

    I'm indeed in browser mode, but I can assure you the issue happens during "normal" switching (surely way longer than 350ms between switches).
    What I do is send a PC to select the rig (1 to 10 on channel 1) followed by some CCs to activate/deactivate stomps and effects.
    Sometimes the relevant block just doesn't turn on. Noticed it on Stomp B and Delay, but I'm pretty sure the issue is common to all of them.
    If it's helpful to investigate the issue, this weekend I can prepare a dump of the MIDI messages sent with every switch.

    Quote from hal2000

    Before downgrading i would test the new Beta 5.0. This is done in minutes and perhaps you have luck...
    Don't forget to make backups.

    I have a gig today, can't take the risk of switching to a beta version right before it. I'll test 5.0 later.
    Rolling back to 4.0.6.12421 fixed the issue.
    I regularly perform backups before every update, don't like to challenge my luck.

    Quote from timo

    Indeed, this would be very helpful - send me a PM with the dumps, I'll take a look into it then.

    I saved 5 presets of my All Access as midi files using Logic. First one also contains a SysEx to set the tempo, the others don't.
    Since I can't figure out how to attach files to a PM, I'm attaching them here. Hope it's ok.
    Presets.zip

    Quote from Soloist74

    I'm indeed in browser mode, but I can assure you the issue happens during "normal" switching (surely way longer than 350ms between switches).What I do is send a PC to select the rig (1 to 10 on channel 1) followed by some CCs to activate/deactivate stomps and effects.
    Sometimes the relevant block just doesn't turn on. Noticed it on Stomp B and Delay, but I'm pretty sure the issue is common to all of them.
    If it's helpful to investigate the issue, this weekend I can prepare a dump of the MIDI messages sent with every switch.

    Are you saying that you send a PC and CC at the same time? If that is the case, why not save your rig with the effects/stomps in the on/off state that you need when you switch the PC?
    Also make sure you do not have conflicting CC messages being sent by accident.

    Quote from drog

    Are you saying that you send a PC and CC at the same time? If that is the case, why not save your rig with the effects/stomps in the on/off state that you need when you switch the PC?

    Because the CCs come from the state of the control switches saved with each preset of my Rocktron All Access, but I'm still free to switch anything on and off whenever I want to.
    We are talking real time control of the effects here, while what you propose is a static scenario.
    (To be precise I don't send a PC and CCs at the same time, but one after the other. It's sequential, not simultaneous.)


    Quote from drog

    Also make sure you do not have conflicting CC messages being sent by accident.

    This is definitely not the case.

    I experienced some lags during shows as well in browse mode. I deleted all non favorites (in System menu) and it went away. I guess my old Kemper doesn't like carrying around 1000 rigs. Hope this helps!

    Quote from Booyah

    I experienced some lags during shows as well in browse mode. I deleted all non favorites (in System menu) and it went away. I guess my old Kemper doesn't like carrying around 1000 rigs. Hope this helps!

    I don't think this is related, but thanks for the heads up.

    Quote from timo

    Indeed, this would be very helpful - send me a PM with the dumps, I'll take a look into it then.

    Did you manage to have a look at the dumps? Hope they were helpful to reproduce the issue.
    Meanwhile I have some additional info:

    • Just tested the 5.0 beta and it shows exactly the same problem.
    • The SysEx message I use to set the tempo also doesn't work in 5.0. I've noticed the tempo is set to the value specified by the SysEx message for less than a second, then it goes back to the rig tempo. (ERRATA: this is expected behaviour, as the SysEx is received before the PC.) When tempo is locked, it's just ignored. Shall I report this as a new bug? (ERRATA: this bug has already been reported by @mortl.)

    I really love the new delays, but really can't move to 5.0 (or even to 4.2.2) until this is solved.

    Just for that part, that SysEx-Messages to change parameters are ignored, when the Parameter is locked: I reported that as a bug about 1 1/2 years ago... And i did it once more a few days ago.
    I noticed that for fx-parameters aswell as for setting tempo.


    As workaround I sent 3 Messages: "Unlock Tempo", "Set Tempo", "Lock Tempo" - that worked out.


    But I quickly went over to send Midi-Clock for setting Tempo.


    Can´t say anything to your problem, wehen Tempo is NOT locked.


    Martin

    I understand SysEx not working with locked parameters is a bug, but when we talk about tempo, it works as a feature for me, as I can rely on tap tempo only, ignoring whatever tempo I programmed in my presets.
    But when the parameters are unlocked, I can't find a single use case where this shouldn't be considered a bug.
    MIDI-Clock would be the perfect solution indeed, if only my All Access could be a source of it. Out of curiosity, what do you set it with?

    Quote from Soloist74

    But when the parameters are unlocked, I can't find a single use case where this shouldn't be considered a bug.

    I take this sentence back. :)
    My problem with tempo setting (w/ unlocked tempo) is clearly caused by the All Access sending the SysEx before the PC and it's not a bug in the KPA.
    At this point the only way for me to make it work would be to lock the tempo and have SysEx messages work also for locked parameters, as per your request.
    Until then, there's no way it can work with the All Access (as MIDI message order is not configurable).

    I use different Rigs in one Song. And I use the same Rigs in differtent Songs.. so I have to lock the tempo and cant save it with the rigs. But for every song I need to set the Songtempo in the Profiler.


    The Performance-Mode doesn´t solve this for me - but thats another story...


    I used to tap the tempo at every start of a song. But now I use an iPad for Leadsheets with the app "onsong". This app can send any Midi-Message and Midi-Clock (Songtempo is included in the leadsheet). So when i switch to the next leadsheet, my iPad sends a Midi-Message to my Footcontroller which switches the first Rig of the song and the stomps on or off and sends Midi-Clock.
    The Midi-Message from the iPad just controls the Footcontroller. The footcontroller itself sends the messages to change rigs and stomps.
    Midi-Clock is sent for about 2seconds. After that i could change tempo manually by tapping it. But as we play with a clicktrack, thats rarely necessary... sometimes when we leave the tempo on purpose, it´s usefull..


    As getting to know the songs better, I don´t use the ipad for the leadsheets but just for switching rigs and tempo for the song.. :)


    Its a DIY-Footcontroller based on Arduino.


    But you could connect the iPad directly to the Kemper and send Midi-Messages and Midi-Clock. But the App sends Midi-Clock continiously... don´t know if this could be a problem..


    Martin