OS 5.0 "Swell" Not Working - HELP PLEASE!

    Per the manual addendum for 5.0 the new Swell feature within some of the delay algo's should do this:


    The Swell parameter engages an auto-swell effect at the input of the delay that lets the volume rise slowly with everynew strike of the strings. At low values, only the pick attack is dampened, creating a smoother delay signal. Withlarger values, the onset of the notes is blurred, creating a pad-like delay.



    Changing this parameter does not behave at all like what is described here. Basically what IS happening is that at 0% the preset sounds as it should, when turned up even to 100% I still get the FULL guitar signal and attack coming through! Per the description above the volume at the input of the delay should start low or zero and rise slowly with every new strike of the strings. This parameter does not work like this for me!


    I've checked every parameter I can find in the kemper and nothing seems to fix this. Can you guys give me ideas of things to check? I must have some setting turned on my kemper that is allowing my guitar signal to pass all the way through my kemper even though it should not. Here's my settings and what I'm running:


    • I'm running Master Stereo from my Main Outputs - tried both XLR and 1/4" to my QSC speaker
    • Direct Mix is set to 0%
    • I've changed just about every other parameter I can to see if it has an effect, I've found nothing that has fixed the issue


    Any ideas? Does this sound right to you guys? Does this parameter work as described for anyone else?

    Quote from KPA_Leader

    Basically what IS happening is that at 0% the preset sounds as it should, when turned up even to 100% I still get the FULL guitar signal and attack coming through! Per the description above the volume at the input of the delay should start low or zero and rise slowly with every new strike of the strings. This parameter does not work like this for me!


    The swell parameter only affects the delayed signal, so it's normal that you still hear your pick attack as you're playing (direct signal). Only the delayed signal (echoes) should have a "swell" effect. To hear this most clearly, set a long delay time. And set the Mix parameter of the delay effect to "100%/100%" (in the middle). That way, you should clearly hear the normal direct signal while your playing, and the swelling delays coming in after that.


    If what you're looking for is a swell effect as you're playing, so not just on the delayed signal, try the settings listed here (link).


    Also, make sure you're using the delay effect after the amp section. The compression from the amp could mask the gradual swell of the delays.


    You mention a "Direct mix" parameter but as I recall there is no parameter with that exact name in the delay effect. I assume you're referring to the "Direct mix" parameter in the Amp section, but that only affects the direct/processed balance of the Amp section itself, not the other effects. You should indeed keep it at 0%.


    The Mix parameter in the delay effect works as follows:

    • All the way to the left (0%): direct signal only, no delay audible;
    • In the middle (100%/100%): direct and delayed signal equally loud;
    • All the way to the right (0%/100%): delayed signal only, no direct signal.

    Download the delay preset swell , import it to your kpa and look if it works.
    You find the download in the dropboxlink under my signature.
    I think you know how to import it because you are the kpa- leader ;)

    Quote from hjscheffler

    Did you make sure to set the delay mix to the maximum value like Robrecht suggested?

    I can do this and have tried it, but I don't understand the point unless to confirm that I don't have a parrallel path on. It does get rid of my initial attack, yes. However the Swell parameter as described should not be dependent on the delay mix parameter, if it does then the manual should be written to say so. Right?


    Can you or someone from Kemper make a preset that is intended to be a true "Swell" using this feature as you have intended it and then make a recording of what it should sound like? Then I can import this preset and compare how yours sounds to how mine sounds? I know users have made Swell presets and have uploaded them however I'm not sure if they have been designed as you intended this feature to be utilized, so I wouldn't trust the results.

    Quote from Eltzejupp

    Download the delay preset swell , import it to your kpa and look if it works.
    You find the download in the dropboxlink under my signature.
    I think you know how to import it because you are the kpa- leader ;)

    lol, the name is a play on my last name which is pronounced Leader but spelled differently. The truth is I'm not an expert here! I will try this tonight and give my feedback.

    The swell parameter only affects the delayed signal.... I guess I'm trying to understand then what is meant by the manual when it says "The Swell parameter engages an auto-swell effect at the input of the delay that lets the volume rise slowly".


    The way the manual read I assumed it meant that my "input" signal would be dampened. But you are saying only the repeats are dampened? If this is the case then I'm thinking about this the wrong way. So the delay algo takes one input, the guitar signal (input 1) and splits it into two "signal paths", 1 for the dry guitar signal (input 2), 1 for the wet delayed effect (input 3). I had assumed that when the manual was saying "input of the delay" that they were referring to what I'm calling "input 1". But what I'm hearing is that only "input 3" is getting the swell effect. So to get the type of swell effect I'm expecting to hear where there is zero initial attack I would indeed have to have the mix parameter all the way up 0%/100% to get rid of the direct signal. If this is true then I was wrong and I was just thinking about this incorrectly.


    The Direct Mix parameter I was speaking of was the Amp section parameter as you mentioned. Okay, I thought this parameter was more like the parallel path parameter, I did not understand how this work until you explained it. Thank you for that.

    I wonder if maybe I have caused some confusion by posting settings (elsewhere) to turn the new delays into an autoswell/"slow gear" effect. If so, sorry!


    Yes, you've described it correctly now: the intention of the "swell" parameter is to make the echoes of the notes you're playing fade in, not the notes themselves (the moment you're playing them). That's why the delay Mix parameter matters, just like it matters for all the other parameters found in the Delay module: if your delayed signal (echo) is not properly audible, you won't be able to hear any of the effects applied to it either!


    I had also just checked the manual and you're right, it's a bit confusing. I guess the "input" they're referring to should be read as the signal fed into the delay algorithm, separate from the direct signal.


    Now, if you want your notes themselves to fade in, then you can use my trick. Follow my link for a list of the settings or @Eltzejupp 's link for a preset file. This is not the original intention of the delay's "swell" parameter. It's kind of a hack: my trick is to set the delay time to zero and the mix to completely wet, like @paults described, so that the echo "replaces" the direct signal.

    Quote from paults

    "The Swell parameter engages an auto-swell effect at the input of the delay that lets the volume rise slowly".


    This sentence contains an accurate choice of words to describe the function of the parameter - it affects only the delay input, not the dry signal.

    I guess I agree with you in a technical sense, however I would assume that many others, not just me would see a "Swell" parameter and then read the manual and come to the same conclusion as me, that if I adjust that parameter I would get an "auto swell" type effect. That my direct signal attack would also have a volume swell. The fact that I have to change two other parameters to achieve this was not intuitive to me at all.


    If the manual simply were to describe this setting a little more clearly with an explain that if you want a "auto swell" type affect try a 100% delay mix and a very short delay time. I guess in order to fully take advantage of the delay algos I need to actually understand how they work, lol.