Profiling...2 mics and a mixer?

    Hey Guys,


    Been having no problems profiling with a mic plugged directly into the Kemper, but I've seen some guys talking about multi mic with a mixer. I'm trying that now....a ribbon and a dynamic, into a mixer, then into the Kemper. I can adjust levels so Kemper accepts and profiles, but the results sound way off when comparing amp vs. profile. Anyone doing this successfully? Any tips or tricks? Is there a setting in the Kemper for line level vs. mic level into the profiling input?

    IMHO, the biggest hurdle and potential issue will be phase coherence between the two sources.


    Again, IMHO, the shortest path to achieving this is to measure the distance from the cone to each mic, ensuring that it's the same, to the greatest extent possible, in both cases.


    Also, try to point both mics perpendicularly to the source (diaphragm at 90 degrees from cone). If you angle one of them to try to extract more bite, as many do, you'll be adding unavoidable comb filtering (nature of the beast when tilting a mic) to an already-complex phase-issue-avoidance challenge.


    Once you feel you're in the ballpark, listen closely with headphones, feeding a looped DI-guitar signal to the amp if necessary, and tweak the positioning of the mics in fine increments 'til you feel the weight (low end) and sweet top end you know the rig's capable of return. You'll notice that until you reach that sweet spot, the two mics will interfere with each others' response by selectively reinforcing some frequencies and cancelling (removing) others. This is what comb filtering is, and in order to hear your rig as you know it to sound, you'll have to eliminate it as much as possible. Be especially-conscious of cancellation / comb filtering in the top end as it'll sound fizzy and harsh.


    Good luck, man! Experimenting can't do any harm.

    Thanks for the reply...a little more info....


    Yes, physically, I have aligned the ribbon in the mic to the capsule in the other...not the external wind screen, but where the actual ribbon/capsule are situated.


    And to be clear, I am comparing the two sounds through the Kemper, in headphones, switching between amp and profile toggle in the profiling menu, so I am hearing what the Kemper hears through the mics, compared to what it has profiled.


    Just a little surprising, because I do the same thing when a mic is hooked directly to Kemper, and toggling between the two is usually damn close. But through the mixer, it's way off.

    I stumbled across those profiles last night. They used two mics: SM57 U87.


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    Its IHMO the best rock-level gain profile around. The sweetest Orange sound I ever heared. So its possible ;)


    Phase issues here are "sound creation by combfiltering". When you are almost perfect then you might have a delay of just 1 or less, .which can be really bad. Shift around one mic until the sound gets sweet. Might well be way off "same distance for both mics". BTW: They also profiled with a fuzz in front, not really text book style. But again: awesome sounding!

    Ne travaillez jamais.

    Edited 2 times, last by SpinnerDeluxe ().

    Imo every commercial profile provider uses a submixer and multiple mics, so it´s not rocket science. Pay attention to correct gainstaging and leave enough headroom when setting the levels. If the signal that you are monitoring though the KPA return is different from your profiling result, use refining...

    Quote from tylerhb

    Imo every commercial profile provider uses a submixer and multiple mics, so it´s not rocket science. Pay attention to correct gainstaging and leave enough headroom when setting the levels. If the signal that you are monitoring though the KPA return is different from your profiling result, use refining...

    THIS ...and in addition (according to that video, if I got it correctly) the used the U87 "for the top end". Might well be the EQed both mics to get bass from one and treble from the other.

    Ne travaillez jamais.

    OK, so in further testing, it is definitely a phase issue. Correcting phase of one mic with a Little Labs IBP not only improved the mic'd amp sound, but the profiler handled it like a champ.

    I will more often than not record an amp using more than one mic, but that's most of all in order to have options come mix time. Using only one of the mics may just as well sound the best. It's not like more equals better 8) I'd rather carefully place one mic to get the best sound possible. Then add another. Does it get better? And be sure to compensate for added loudness in order to not let that fool ya!


    Another note to people using multiple mics...aligning capsules won't help you when mixing dynamic and condenser mics. The dynamic mic is 90 degrees off. Gotta use your ear...