Workflow Question: song parts / tempo

    Hello everyone,


    I'm thinking of buying a Kemper for home-recording and practice.


    Is there a way I can route a metronome into the Kemper without it affecting the actual signal when recording, i.e. just have it come through the headphones?


    The plan is to record guitar parts and archive them according to key, tempo, time sig, etc so they can be used later in a DAW. I need the part/region to be exact for it to work correctly. The region would also be recorded dry + cab. I can imagine hooking my iphone up to the Kemper but I don't want the click to be recorded.


    Or is there a better way of doing it? :S

    Welcome, I am a new KPA owner myself and have been studying the manual. I recall reading something about an aux input which would allow you to do exactly as you describe. Here is what the manual says, I recommend you download from the site for further details (ref manual for OS rev 5.x page 50)


    "The Auxiliary Input function allows you to feed a stereo signal, such as a mp3-player, into your Profiler to play along with it. In the Output/Master menu, the Auxiliary Input function is equipped with three controls: one to feed the aux signal to the main outputs as well as S/PDIF OUT, and two others to feed it to the Monitor and Headphone output. This allows you, for instance, to add an additional monitor signal to your headphone output, while the main output stays unaffected."


    HOWEVER, having said all this, what you are looking to do is going to likely cause timing/alignment issues (not due to the KPA but due to the general approach). You want to record the click to a track and then use that to record against. Otherwise, if you are going to use an external metronome it really needs to be clocked into the system so everything stays in proper sync.


    Sonic

    Zapman: thanks!


    @SonicExporer:


    Thank you for your in depth answer, it's greatly appreciated!


    I never thought of the timing issue but it might not make that much of a difference for me in my particular case because it would not have to be perfect at this stage of making a song (would be ideal to have it fit perfectly though for sure!). At this stage, for me, the arrangement is like a rough draft.


    Say if you're working on a song and you have 500 or more parts flying around on your harddisk and you remember there was this one part that could fit into the arrangement. You check your files and locate "Key E minor, 7/8, 130bpm". You drop that into the DAW and fix/cut the region to make it fit, maybe chop the trailing end off a little. The less you need to cut the better the workflow, I guess. But it doesn't have to be perfect. Once the arrangement of the song is in the bag I would go over the scratch regions again anyway, i.e. re-record the guitar parts. In some cases though the part would fit perfectly and since it's dry I can add reverb, compression, etc. later.


    That's the plan. :D


    Hmm, maybe the Zoom H4n can write SMPTE or something to keep it all synced....might have to look into that. Maybe some one here knows?

    Quote from Michael_dk

    I don't think there's any problem with syncing at all. As long as the metronome is stable to the level of a human drummer (more or less). Any syncing issue is at bpm level (like, if you played a couple of BPM too slow/fast), not smpte level :)


    Trust me on this, there can be a problem. Shouldn't rely on BPM alone, there always needs to be a master clock or all kinds of alignment and/or sync issues may occur. Variations of drift. Some more severe than others. And the longer the song is the worse it can get. Implied in the statement of always needing a master also includes dropping the click onto an audio track. Such a track in itself would then be sync'd to the master clock. Using a MIDI click track is another option but still needs to use a common master clock one way or another.


    Many ways to skin this cat but relying only on BPM is not a reliable one. (Unless the metronome has a sync mechanism like S/PDIF, but that's not usually the case)

    I agree there can be sync issue and a lot of frustration linked to that.


    But in this case the region or snippets will just only 1-2 bars long and repeated. Long regions will definitely introduce sync issues. So from my experience you're both right! :thumbup:


    When I get my Kemper (next year in April as I'm abroad at the moment) I'll report back!

    I would think that you should be able to send the audio from a click track in your DAW back to the Kemper (S/PDIF in) to hear it and that shouldn't affect the signal you have from KPA > DAW.

    Quote from flyingheelhook

    So as a novice who has only done a few recordings using a Scarlet 2i2 into Reaper, I have to ask:


    Why not use the DAW as your master metronome?

    Great question.


    I just want to use my guitar and the kemper to practice and come up with licks. I play guitar in the living room and don't want to set everything up (laptop with DAW, audio interface, Kemper, etc.) because I noticed that I lose inspiration when there's too much to fiddle with. And having the laptop there with me will lead me to check Facebook or surf the net. I just want to keep things simple. Guitar+Kemper and record ideas and licks for later. Ideal would be to drop those into the DAW on the weekends and come up with arrangement then, so to do that they'd have to be categorized and pretty much in time to sound good in the arrangement.


    That's pretty much it.

    If you are going into a DAW, just set the metronome in the DAW and use your headphone output on your interface to hear both the Kemper and click.
    If you can't setup a metronome , then just record a simple drum beat on another track first .


    For a simple setup for ideas, get a Zoom H5. It has a metronome and direct inputs that you can plug the Kemper into. You can even use it as an interface if you want.

    Quote from drog

    For a simple setup for ideas, get a Zoom H5. It has a metronome and direct inputs that you can plug the Kemper into. You can even use it as an interface if you want.

    I'm after a really simple setup so your idea will be what I am going to try. No DAW. No computer or laptop. Just guitar+kemper+sound recorder w. click.


    I read somewhere the Zoom h4n has a metronome but only in record or playback mode, not sure about the H5. And I'm not sure it does odd signatures (I love 5/8, 6/8 and 7/8!). It was mentioned upthread that you can use the aux inputs to overlay a click track without compromising the dry signal of the kemper. I think that will be ok for me.


    If all things fail I might have my iphone next to me for a click....but that can still be distracting. It's a bummer these days that so many things can pull you off track....especially if you're a procrastinator like me 8o

    The Zoom H5 metronome has the following options. 0/4 – 8/4, 6/8. So you can do odd time signatures. There are also different sounds to choose, such as click, cowbell, stick, etc. It's a really fine portable recorder.