Comparison of DIs and Reamps... thinking of buying Dimarzio Breeds over EMGs

    Hey guys,


    This involves Kemper, but I guess since my focus is more on the pups, it's better to post it in this section.


    I have had a long, painful quest of getting good distorted sounds out of my Kemper and it still continues. I appreciate feedback and thoughts.


    As I was still thinking it could be a fault in the Kemper, a member by the name of MentaL was kind enough to supply me with his DI recording to test my reamping. It turned out that the Kemper was working correctly. And that made me think, the problem must be then the signal going to the Kemper, that is: strings, guitar, pickups; or then possibly my audio interface. His DI sounded really awesome, while nothing I could make sounded so good, or made the Kemper sound so good either. I have tested a lot of different strings, and even went and bought a new ESP E-II Horizon to upgrade my guitar situation. But still... his sound is better, and makes better reamps. Now I'm thinking at least part of the thing is the pickups.


    And before going further I would really like to know, if we both record DI through the Kemper, so it's the Kemper doing the analog-digital conversion (as I am lead to believe), does the audio interface have any part of forming the sound? Because if it's the Kemper doing all the work, and the interface is just receiving 1s and 0s, does it make any difference whether it's a Focusrite Scarlett as I have, or something much more expensive as he most probably has? The reason I'm asking is that, while he has a lot more low-range, it doesn't sound boomy or muddy at all. It sounds really defined and good. Is this due to the pickup or the audio interface?


    To continue... I have made several DI recordings, and then their reamps to make a comparison. All bridge position. All mine are in D-tune.


    1) Mental's DI. He said he has a Ibanez JEM with Dimarzio Breed and cobalt strings. C-tune. Don't know gauge.
    2) ESP with month old DR DDT 11-54 strings, and EMG 57 with a 24 V mod (because it was clipping on 9 V even at 5 mm distance).
    3) Same ESP with brand new cobalt 11-54 strings.
    4) Number 3 EQd with EQCurve to match number 1 (to test how it affects reamping).
    5) My brothers Kramer with couple of months old DR DDT 11-54, passive SD pups. There's somekind of a boost switch.. here ON.
    6) And here OFF.
    7) My Kramer with about 2 month old DR DDT strings, EMG 81 pup with 9 V, and as you can hear it clips a little.


    External Content soundcloud.com
    Content embedded from external sources will not be displayed without your consent.
    Through the activation of external content, you agree that personal data may be transferred to third party platforms. We have provided more information on this in our privacy policy.


    As you can probably hear, number 1 has much more low-end, and much less high-end. Also, even looking at the image of the recording, compared to all my recordings, it's very flat, like compressed. I have big transients, and the sound fades after them, while his doesn't. Is this due to pickups?


    The rest of the clips are the reamps in order. I used something from Guido Bungenstock. The outgoing clips all peaked at -0.2, so should be same level of volume. A difference is of course that since I have bigger transients, what happens after the transients will have less distortion in my clips. I know that one reamp is just one case, but I have perceived a problem in my sounds through-out all my distorted rigs, and I think his illustrates what the problem is in all of them.


    Some might say that there's not a big difference. But for me it's always about making it work in the mix. And there it matters. The sound needs to be defined and clear to have it sit well in it's pocket in the mix. For me at least, number one is the best. And from the rest, I would maybe choose number 4. That was the EQ matched one. So I would say that definitely the frequency distribution in itself is playing a big part. The rest of them have a lot more high-end, but for me they sound brittle, not bright. And I guess that is a big part of the problem I keep having with Kemper.. distorted sounds sound brittle, not sturdy.


    But as number 1 is sturdier, thicker and more defined compared to it's EQ matched equivalent, it's not the frequency distribution only. So what is it then? What I find puzzling is that the strings seem to blend more in number 1, but still the frequencies sound clearer, like there's more separation. With all that low-end, it's not boomy or muddy at all. This is what made me question if the audio interface has something to do with it. Can you hear what I'm talking about?


    So.. this is what made me consider switching the EMG actives to Dimarzio Breeds. I'm quite sure that I would prefer it that way, because I seem to find that high high-end making everything brittle. But before I purchase anything, I would like to understand what is happening. Is the audio interface playing a role here? How come his sound is so defined, is that due to pickups? Would you choose one of my reamps over his? Any thoughts?

    Mental's DI is a lower tuning, as you mentioned, so that might colour some of your perception. But at the same time, I did notice quite a difference in the quality of his DIs versus yours - his seems to have more girth or body, yours are a bit thin. It's likely to be due to the way you recorded the DI, perhaps you used a lower clean sense setting, which could have affected your DI recording.


    Take a look at the reamping guide in my sig and see if you can adjust your clean sense appropriately to get a strong DI signal.


    Also, check your SPDIF volume in the output section. You want it to be at full signal strength when recording a DI.

    Quote from nightlight

    Mental's DI is a lower tuning, as you mentioned, so that might colour some of your perception. But at the same time, I did notice quite a difference in the quality of his DIs versus yours - his seems to have more girth or body, yours are a bit thin. It's likely to be due to the way you recorded the DI, perhaps you used a lower clean sense setting, which could have affected your DI recording.


    Take a look at the reamping guide in my sig and see if you can adjust your clean sense appropriately to get a strong DI signal.


    Also, check your SPDIF volume in the output section. You want it to be at full signal strength when recording a DI.

    Thank you very much for the answer. His definitely has girth, whereas mine are thin.


    I have been wondering about that Clean Sense. I have set it to around -6, can't remember now exactly. I have set it there just because anything higher will turn the light red in the input. I can't have it going to red all the time, right?

    Quote from MarkusUz

    Thank you very much for the answer. His definitely has girth, whereas mine are thin.
    I have been wondering about that Clean Sense. I have set it to around -6, can't remember now exactly. I have set it there just because anything higher will turn the light red in the input. I can't have it going to red all the time, right?


    Ideally, it should be consistently hitting yellow when you create the DI signal. One or two flashes of red if you really slam the guitar don't matter, what matters is when you play normally at a regular velocity, it should not constantly light up in red.

    Quote from nightlight

    Ideally, it should be consistently hitting yellow when you create the DI signal. One or two flashes of red if you really slam the guitar don't matter, what matters is when you play normally at a regular velocity, it should not constantly light up in red.

    Well, that's about how I have set it. It's around minus 5-7, and it hits red on an occasional hard strum. Also... I was under the impression that the Clean Sense doesn't affect the sound (quality)?

    Quote from MentaL

    remember i keep my clean and distortion sence all set at 0, i very rarely change this and all output volumes are 0.

    Thanks for joining. Yes, I seem to remember you mentioning this. But if I put it to 0, it will go to red all the time. Also, I think it shouldn't affect anything else than volume.


    Do you have any idea why your DI sounds so much better than mine? If it's not to the pickup, or possibly the audio interface... then I can't guess what it is.

    Quote from MentaL

    Guitar maybe?

    Well, there's three different guitars there, and the ESP is supposed to be quite high-quality. But then again... there's three different pickups there, and they are also supposed to be high-quality.


    So, you don't think it's the pickup?

    Quote from MarkusUz

    Well, there's three different guitars there, and the ESP is supposed to be quite high-quality. But then again... there's three different pickups there, and they are also supposed to be high-quality.
    So, you don't think it's the pickup?

    No 2 guitars ever sound the same though and the Jem is a hand crafted guitar so once again the wood and everything else effects the tone.

    Quote from nightlight

    The ESP isn't a lightweight, I have a Ltd and it doesn't sound as thin as your DIs. I'm guessing it's thinner because something is going wrong with the actual recording of the DI. It's not even the pickups, imo.

    Yeah... I just for the love of life can't fathom what the problem is. Guitar -> Kemper -> SPDIF -> Interface.


    Btw, what pickup do you have on the Ltd?


    No one have commented on the possibility of the interface affecting the sound.. I'm still puzzled if it has any significance.

    Quote from MentaL

    No 2 guitars ever sound the same though and the Jem is a hand crafted guitar so once again the wood and everything else effects the tone.

    Yes, I understand. But I'm not worried about them sounding just different, but your clip sounding so much better than all of mine, three different guitars. It's like yours is really defined, while mine are clouded.


    I would, as nightlight, also say that it's something systematic in the recordings. But as I simply can't comprehend what it could be. Therefore my pick would have been the pickups. Okay, I'm not saying it couldn't be the guitar, but then why on earth I spent 2000 euros on a new guitar if it doesn't solve the problem of having these cloudy recordings. This is really frustrating.

    Quote from MarkusUz

    Yeah... I just for the love of life can't fathom what the problem is. Guitar -> Kemper -> SPDIF -> Interface.
    Btw, what pickup do you have on the Ltd?


    No one have commented on the possibility of the interface affecting the sound.. I'm still puzzled if it has any significance.

    Yes, I understand. But I'm not worried about them sounding just different, but your clip sounding so much better than all of mine, three different guitars. It's like yours is really defined, while mine are clouded.
    I would, as nightlight, also say that it's something systematic in the recordings. But as I simply can't comprehend what it could be. Therefore my pick would have been the pickups. Okay, I'm not saying it couldn't be the guitar, but then why on earth I spent 2000 euros on a new guitar if it doesn't solve the problem of having these cloudy recordings. This is really frustrating.


    I have an EMG 81-85 combo in that guitar. Not my favourite pickups, because I prefer passives.


    Listening again to your DI, I'm not convinced there is something wrong with it after listening to the reamped track. I'd say the differences in tone between your and Mental's recordings are due to the difference in the way the guitar was played - Mental's sounds more sure and palm muted, the other one sounds loose and with strings ringing out.

    Quote from MentaL

    and how did you find the cobalt strings ?

    Well, in the DI it sounds really bright. That could be a good thing, but I kinda feel everything bright ends up being brittle. So I guess they won't be my choice in the future, at least if I keep using the EMGs.


    On playability, hard to make slides on the wounds, like too much friction to my taste. And as I have 11-54, the 3. string being 22 is just too thick to my taste. I never liked them when they start to look like ordinary iron wire.


    But I'm sure they are really good when it fits the guitar and pickup tonally. It seems to go well with a darker pickup like the Breed.


    How do you like them? And what gauge do you use?

    Quote from nightlight


    I have an EMG 81-85 combo in that guitar. Not my favourite pickups, because I prefer passives.


    Listening again to your DI, I'm not convinced there is something wrong with it after listening to the reamped track. I'd say the differences in tone between your and Mental's recordings are due to the difference in the way the guitar was played - Mental's sounds more sure and palm muted, the other one sounds loose and with strings ringing out.

    Do you also get the feeling that the EMGs make things too brittle? Since MentaL's frequency spetcrum lacked much more from the high-end, I experimented by putting a high cut in front of the amp section in a distorted rig, and it definitely made the sound better. Funnily enough, the frequency spectrum of the sound doesn't really chance with the high cut, the sound just becomes sturdier as it loses the brittleness. I didn't know it goes like that. Anyway, this kind of points me to considering pickups with less high-end. Or what is the reason you prefer passives?


    They are played differently for sure. I wasn't really concentrating on that, since I thought the separation and definition of the frequencies, along with the frequency spectrum, were the more important things here. But it's a good point. It would be better to make the comparison, if they were played more similarly and with the same tuning. Also the string gauge might be different.. let's wait Mental to answer what he used on that clip.

    Quote from MarkusUz

    Do you also get the feeling that the EMGs make things too brittle? Since MentaL's frequency spetcrum lacked much more from the high-end, I experimented by putting a high cut in front of the amp section in a distorted rig, and it definitely made the sound better. Funnily enough, the frequency spectrum of the sound doesn't really chance with the high cut, the sound just becomes sturdier as it loses the brittleness. I didn't know it goes like that. Anyway, this kind of points me to considering pickups with less high-end. Or what is the reason you prefer passives?
    They are played differently for sure. I wasn't really concentrating on that, since I thought the separation and definition of the frequencies, along with the frequency spectrum, were the more important things here. But it's a good point. It would be better to make the comparison, if they were played more similarly and with the same tuning. Also the string gauge might be different.. let's wait Mental to answer what he used on that clip.


    EMGs aren't generally brittle, but they have a certain mid-scooped character to them that I'm not a big fan of. I've always wanted more definition in my tone and while the EMGs aren't bad by any means, they are just not my sound. I'm leaning toward putting something like Invaders or X2Ns into the guitar.


    It probably makes more sense to have that high frequency content in your reamped sound and then EQ it out in the mixing stages, I think, but there are no hard and fast rules.


    I'd say try tuning your guitar a step lower before getting too worried about this. Also, record the DI while really laying into your strings. I have a feeling you'll be happy with the results. As it stands, the reamped tones are pretty similar, it's just the tuning that is different, plus the difference in playing.

    Quote from nightlight


    EMGs aren't generally brittle, but they have a certain mid-scooped character to them that I'm not a big fan of. I've always wanted more definition in my tone and while the EMGs aren't bad by any means, they are just not my sound. I'm leaning toward putting something like Invaders or X2Ns into the guitar.


    It probably makes more sense to have that high frequency content in your reamped sound and then EQ it out in the mixing stages, I think, but there are no hard and fast rules.


    I'd say try tuning your guitar a step lower before getting too worried about this. Also, record the DI while really laying into your strings. I have a feeling you'll be happy with the results. As it stands, the reamped tones are pretty similar, it's just the tuning that is different, plus the difference in playing.

    I tried tuning down and, ugh, it sounded even worse. No matter how I play it. And then I tried tuning up, back to normal E, and it sounded better. Much tighter. But I have used strings where the 6. string is 54-56, so it should be thick enough for D. But maybe I will experiment with even a 60, just to see if the gauge solves it. I would love to play in E, but all of my projects go in standard D, and I can't really change it.


    But I still think the pickup has a role in this. And EQing after the accident has happened doesn't really work, it's just going to be a brittle sound without high-end. Much better to have a tighter sound with high end, by putting the cut in front of the amp. Well, that's how I see it. But maybe with other pickups the cut wouldn't even be necessary. I hope.


    I wrote to Dimarzio and their recommendation for me was the Imperium for bridge. Unfortunately, I can't find a place in Europe that sells them. Ordering from US, I would have to pay taxes. I'm not sure if I want to invest so much without really knowing if that's what's best for me.

    Quote from MarkusUz

    I tried tuning down and, ugh, it sounded even worse. No matter how I play it. And then I tried tuning up, back to normal E, and it sounded better. Much tighter. But I have used strings where the 6. string is 54-56, so it should be thick enough for D. But maybe I will experiment with even a 60, just to see if the gauge solves it. I would love to play in E, but all of my projects go in standard D, and I can't really change it.
    But I still think the pickup has a role in this. And EQing after the accident has happened doesn't really work, it's just going to be a brittle sound without high-end. Much better to have a tighter sound with high end, by putting the cut in front of the amp. Well, that's how I see it. But maybe with other pickups the cut wouldn't even be necessary. I hope.


    I wrote to Dimarzio and their recommendation for me was the Imperium for bridge. Unfortunately, I can't find a place in Europe that sells them. Ordering from US, I would have to pay taxes. I'm not sure if I want to invest so much without really knowing if that's what's best for me.


    If you've chosen a tuning, stick with it! The music shouldn't have to be changed in order to fix a problem.


    I have a huge problem with having to choose a pickup without even testing it out. It's the worst situation you can be in, because most pickups have their own character even within the same product line and it's also expensive to have to keep buying them/testing them/sending them back for another model.


    See if you can find someone using Imperiums in your area, or whether any musical instrument stores have a guitar with one installed in the bridge. Test out other pickups too, maybe you will find something that you like.


    One more suggestion: Mental used a passive pickup in his clip, yours are active. Why not ask a friend with a guitar with passive pickups to come over and just try to record this riff a couple of times. If it sounds closer to Mental's or better than yours, then you have your answer. But if there isn't much of a change and the tone still sounds brittle, I would guess there is something going funny at the recording stage, but I don't know what.


    One more thing: are you recording with SPDIF or the main output signal? Could your cables be cutting your low and high end? It has been known to happen.

    Good advices!


    One of the pickups in soundcloud was a passive. I have had trouble getting other guitarists to come, as I don't really know anyone in my home town. But it would be really useful to have another player, guitar. But I have been thinking a bout getting a Dimarzio passive. At least I can compare then.


    I record with SPDIF... and recording with other options seems to produce about the same result. I have tried also the DI straight to audio interface. But it really does sound like the lows are cut, or that there's something wrong with the lows. The end result doesn't have to be like Mental's necessarily... I just want a good sound!