Problem When Profiling: Can Only Hear Reference Amp?

    Hi all,
    Hoping you can help. I've been trying to do some direct amp profiles and mostly it's worked fine. However for some reason where there's an option of comparing the kemper to the reference amp, that is i) when setting the return level before profiling, and ii) when comparing the sound of the kemper compared to the reference amp after profiling, I only ever seem to hear the reference amp.


    When setting the return level, no matter what it set to, the volume between the kemper and the reference amp is identical.
    After profiling, when switching back and forth between the two during the refining stage, there is no sound difference. At first I thought this was due to the Kemper doing an incredible job at capturing the sound of the reference amp, however when I adjust the parameters (e.g. Clarity, Pick) there is no audible difference to my ears, even at extreme settings. The other thing I noticed is that if I adjust the real eq on the reference amp during the refining stage, I can hear the sound change on both the "Kemper" and "Reference" sides. This has led to me to believe that all I've ever been hearing during profiling is the reference amp. It's like i can't hear the Kemper at all.


    What's interesting though is it is capturing the profile. And I receive no errors at all. If I save it and hook up the Kemper as normal, I can play the profile back and it's pretty close to the original, although slightly different.


    I'm hooking it up as follows -
    Guitar -> Kemper Input
    Kemper Direct Out/Send -> Amp Input
    Amp Speaker Out -> DI Input
    DI Thru -> Speaker Cab
    DI Out (XLR) -> Kemper Return (XLR)


    In case it matters, the amp is a H&K Triamp Mk2 head. The DI is a BSS AR-133. I've set the DI to -20db.

    I have experienced exactly the same thing when profiling, direct profiles and studio profiles… And I believe that all I am hearing on both reference and kemper push buttons is the reference amplifier…
    This is very discouraging for me as all of the videos on YouTube show people compare a reference amplifier and kemper in the final sound - proving of how close it profiles… I don’t know if there is an answer for this but I sure would like one.

    Quote from SQUAREHEAD

    I have experienced exactly the same thing when profiling, direct profiles and studio profiles… And I believe that all I am hearing on both reference and kemper push buttons is the reference amplifier…
    This is very discouraging for me as all of the videos on YouTube show people compare a reference amplifier and kemper in the final sound - proving of how close it profiles… I don’t know if there is an answer for this but I sure would like one.

    Hi Squarehead. Did you ever get to the bottom of this? I haven't tried profiling in a while and was going to try again this week. Searching around here and elsewhere I still haven't found an answer to this...

    Have you both tried to select "Kemper amp" and physically disconnect the cable from the Profiler Send to the reference amp input? How could you possibly hear the reference amp now?

    tried it Burkhard, it worked! You’re right!
    Now I just have to figure out why I can do 3 EXACT Direct profiles in a row and they each come out different volumes etc...
    I am making progress, I’m way ahead of where I was a couple months ago 8)

    Hi all,
    I was just trying to search for this forum's threads to find an answer for the same issue. :)
    I have only started with making my first profiles and I also experience no change (no Kemper sound when switching the soft buttons in order to compare the return level).
    I think this should work even without disconnecting any cables.


    I'm hooking it up as follows -
    Guitar -> Kemper Input
    Kemper Direct Out/Send -> Amp Input
    SM57 and Sennheiser MD409 mikes to mic inputs of UAD Apollo interface -> direct Cue mix send to Apollo Output 3
    Apollo Output 3 (TS jack) -> Kemper Return (TS jack)


    I was monitoring the sound on the interface (Apollo) headpohne output as suggested in
    Rhett Shull's profiling guide


    The only difference (in comparison with the official Kemper guide) that I spotted in his tutorial is his usage of Main Outs.
    BTW, I think he makes great profiles.
    I do not have the KPA's Main Outputs connected to anything during profiling.

    The "disconnecting cable" method is proving that the Profiler works as documented and should. We concluded this already. However, if you connect your headphones to an interface which sits in the Profiling loop instead of being connected to a Profiler output e. g. the Headphone Output, you can only hear the Reference Amp. Please consult the Kemper Profiling Guide, which even includes pictures of the Profiling setup.

    Thank you Burkhard,
    I understand that I was misled by the video tutorial and that I should be using Kemper headphone output for comparing Kemper and reference amp for setting the return level.

    Hey guys, when I am doing a profile, my levels are always matched… I never have to change anything as far as volume level goes… I have one question though… When I am doing a direct profile, The bottom right-hand corner of the screen it will say +4.4 DB, (for example) … What does this actually represent? Because when I watched Rhett Shull video, he raised it when his signal was already louder?
    Sorry, I am just having a bit of a brain fog…

    Quote from SQUAREHEAD

    Hey guys, when I am doing a profile, my levels are always matched… I never have to change anything as far as volume level goes… I have one question though… When I am doing a direct profile, The bottom right-hand corner of the screen it will say +4.4 DB, (for example) … What does this actually represent? Because when I watched Rhett Shull video, he raised it when his signal was already louder?
    Sorry, I am just having a bit of a brain fog…


    I'm unaware why you should be hearing the same thing when switching between the Kemper and the reference amp. It shouldn't be happening, especially not before you have even profiled the amp. And if you can't hear the actual amp through reference amp, I'm unsure how you are winding up with profiles at all.


    Could I see some pictures of the back of your Kemper? Are you connecting the output to the regular 1/4" return input and not the XLR input? That could be where this is occurring.

    Hey nightlight, I was using XLR back into the kemper and now I am using the quarter inch TRS because I feel I am getting better results… Yes, before I do the profiling and such, I am getting exactly the same sound out of both the KPA button and the reference amplifier button…

    Quote from SQUAREHEAD

    Hey nightlight, I was using XLR back into the kemper and now I am using the quarter inch TRS because I feel I am getting better results… Yes, before I do the profiling and such, I am getting exactly the same sound out of both the KPA button and the reference amplifier button…

    Same sound is good, but are you able to raise and lower the volume of the reference amp using the Kemper controls?

    Quote from Burkhard

    Have you both tried to select "Kemper amp" and physically disconnect the cable from the Profiler Send to the reference amp input? How could you possibly hear the reference amp now?

    Hi Burkhard, I just tried this yesterday and when I do there's silence. No reference amp or Kemper. Does this mean whatever the issue is relates to the XLR return to the Kemper? I know the DI box output is working fine as I use it between a keyboard and mixing desk without any problems.

    This thread started as "Can only hear Reference Amp". Both @eric86 and @SQUAREHEAD claimed that regardless of if they select "Kemper Amp" or "Reference Amp" in Profiler Mode, they always hear the Reference Amp.


    I suggested to falsify this theory by disconnecting the cable to the Reference Amp. If I do that and select Kemper Amp and hear a signal on my speakers connected to the Profiler. That cannot be the reference amp as there is no cable connection, right? If I now select Reference Amp, I hear no signal from my monitor speakers. This must be the disconnected cable now. So, everything works as should!


    I don' know, what you disconnected in which Mode ... and why you now don't hear anything when Kemper Amp is selected. It's not that difficult. Perhaps you could start with simply profiling a cable. Plug a cable between Send and Return and profile that. It will be recognized as a clean Direct Profile (cab will be shut off). Perhaps this helps to understand the concept.

    I originally made the mistake of just unplugging the reference amplifier without changing the speaker cable back into my powered KPA…
    Burkhard is exactly right…
    It works properly, I still get the KPA sound when I turn off the reference amplifier but I have to make sure, change the damn speaker cable back, LOL (hat har har) :sleeping: