Doubts about usage possibilities

AndyT89 · Sep 14th 2018

Quote from Wheresthedug

@AndyT89 i’ve just watched the video. He is simply running basic 4CM as you would with a traditional amp/pedal board but with an extra preamp from the Headrush as an overdrive/distortion pedal effect.

Most of what he describes can be done in the Kemper but it isn’t what you described in your question. The guy’s description in the video is a little confused in places and some of what he says isn’t quite right. For example he talks about “replacing” the pre amp of the Quilter with the Headrush pre amp. This isn’t happening. What is really happening is he is running the two preamps sequentially and changing the order. They are both still on.

However, the main thing about the set up that differs from you original question is that he is basically using the Quilter amp as a clean pedal platform rather than as a significant part of the overal tone. You would get similar results running the Headrush or Kemper into a clean power amp and speaker as he is not relying on the drive characteristics of the Quilter. He is NOT capturing the final signal path from the Headrush AND amp to send to FOH. In order to capture the full path to send to FOH you would need to stick a mic in front of the cab.

The signal going to FOH is Gtr>HR FX and pre amp>Quilter PreAmp>HR FX post>HR CabSim.

The signal In the room is Gtr>HR FX and pre amp>Quilter PreAmp>HR FX post>Quilter Power Amp>Quilter Cab. To get that to FOH you need a mic or a loadbox with IRs like a Two Notes Torpedo.

Depending on how you use the real amp those two signal paths might be quite similar or could be worlds apart.

The way to achieve The true glory of your Archon is simply to profile the Archon with your settings and speaker. Then use that in the Kemper chain along with the Kemper FX. Send one signal to FOH and the other to your onstage monitors. If you really want a traditional guitar cab on stage for the trouser flapping oomph effect just bypass the cab section of the profile in the monitor (alternarive out in the HR video). You will then have the same sound going to both FOH and stage without all the cables and without having to carry your Archon to gigs.

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Ok so let's go on with the HR example. The point is that even in this case the only path that involves also the PowerAmp section of the amp is the one that go through the real cab right ? So the FOH gets what's on the HR screen, but since the PowerAmp of the real amp is not going into the HR you're not using its sound right ?

So if I do the same thing with my amp; let's say I'm on the drive channel and I'm using the HR to add reverb and dalay in the loop and then I punt a cab sim at the end of the chain. The real cab on stage is getting the whole path without the cab sim, so Gtr > Archon PreAmp > HR FX in the loop > Archon PowerAmp. Instead the FOH is getting Gtr > Archon PreAmp > HR FX in the loop > Cab sim. Right ?
And of course I'd be in the same situation with the Kemper....

Wheresthedug · Sep 14th 2018

Yes you would be on the same situation with the Kemper. The point is that the power amp cna be a significant part of the tone whoch is why you get massive debates about whether an amp like the Mesa Dual Rectifier sound best woth 6L6 or EL34 tubes. You will be missing that part of the signal path at FOH

AndyT89 · Sep 14th 2018

Quote from Wheresthedug

Yes you would be on the same situation with the Kemper. The point is that the power amp cna be a significant part of the tone whoch is why you get massive debates about whether an amp like the Mesa Dual Rectifier sound best woth 6L6 or EL34 tubes. You will be missing that part of the signal path at FOH

Ok so now I've the final answer: what I was trying to do is not possible with the Kemper neither with other digital gear... My intention was to capture the whole path including the PowerAmp of the Archon and send it also to the FOH.
The only solution would be of course to profile the Archon and use the Kemper instead of the amp. So I'd use the cab on stage and then send the same sound but with a cab sim to the FOH.

Wheresthedug · Sep 14th 2018

Yes.

In order to do what you wanted to do with any of the digital options you would need a Kemper/HedRish/Helix/AxeFx plus a load box like the Two Notes Torpedo which is a very expensive solution and a little ad of extra gar to lug around to gigs.

The profile of the Archon will be so convincing you won’t even know you don’t have the real amp on stage though

ToneDeaf · Sep 15th 2018

Quote from AndyT89

The only solution would be of course to profile the Archon and use the Kemper instead of the amp. So I'd use the cab on stage and then send the same sound but with a cab sim to the FOH.

Yes and yes.

My only word of advice would be to not discredit this setup. The thing is, that cab simulation is actually your cab profiled and I am willing to bet that at high volume, live situation there is no way people would hear the difference.

Also, if you want to move air, use your cab, if you just want to hear yourself, you can just hook up to a powered monitor or in-ear.

AndyT89 · Sep 15th 2018

And using a load box like for example the Two notes torpedo captor is not possible to send also the drive coming from the PowerAmp to the Kemper and then add a cab sim to go to FOH ?

Finally · Sep 15th 2018

I used to think about stuff like this and even tried it a couple of times, but I only use the Kemper now.

Wheresthedug · Sep 15th 2018

Quote from AndyT89

And using a load box like for example the Two notes torpedo captor is not possible to send also the drive coming from the PowerAmp to the Kemper and then add a cab sim to go to FOH ?

not as far as I can see. Thar would rewuire you to send the signal through the Kemper twice (once early in the chain for preamp and FX then at the end chain for the cab sim. The Kemper only has one set of connections for routing signal flow. In your scensrio the Loadbox would also supply the cab IR and this the signal that would go to FOH.

However, if you want to run this sort of hybrid system there are probably better solutions available for less money.

Can I ask WHY you want to go through all this trouble and expense trying to build a hybrid rig?

What do you think xoect it to add that you can’t get any other way?

Maybe I’m just being dumb and missing something really obvious but I cannot think od a single advantage but at least half a dozen disadvantages spring to mind instantly.

AndyT89 · Sep 16th 2018

Quote from Wheresthedug

not as far as I can see. Thar would rewuire you to send the signal through the Kemper twice (once early in the chain for preamp and FX then at the end chain for the cab sim. The Kemper only has one set of connections for routing signal flow. In your scensrio the Loadbox would also supply the cab IR and this the signal that would go to FOH.
However, if you want to run this sort of hybrid system there are probably better solutions available for less money.

Can I ask WHY you want to go through all this trouble and expense trying to build a hybrid rig?

What do you think xoect it to add that you can’t get any other way?

Maybe I’m just being dumb and missing something really obvious but I cannot think od a single advantage but at least half a dozen disadvantages spring to mind instantly.

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I know I'm looking for trouble The main reason is that when I'm in a situation that allows me to use the Archon with the cab I don't want to give up and use the Kemper.
I already know that I'll use the Kemper most of the time because it's more practical and functional in every way, but as I said for some special and big situations I'd like to be able to use my real rig. So I thought that I could find a way to integrate the Kemper in this situation as a effects unit. I wanted to have the real sound on stage with the Kemper as effects unit and also I wanted to use its cab sim skills so I don't have to mic the cab on stage. In this way I just have thought to get the best of both worlds...

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