Another liquid profile question

    Is there a sound difference between "generic gain" and the LP gain of an amp? I realize the taper, and amount offered will change to match the actual amp, but within the same gain range, is the sound different between generic and the LP gain of an amp? In other words, lets say I have a Marshall LP and it shows the gain on 9. Generic gain would have been like 6 to match the same level. If nothing is done to the EQ, does the amp feel/sound the same between a liquidprofile and the same profile with a generic stack set at matching gain levels?

    I just wondered if I am using unaltered snapshots of an amp and don't care if the EQ or gain taper/amount is "authentic" Is there a reason to use liquid profiles?

    Say if I have a Soldano amp I've been using pre LP, is there anything I will gain by adding a LP stack of a Soldano to it if I don't know the original EQ settings?

    I think this answers what you're asking.....If you don't know the original settings - I see no advantage to adding LP. Unless when you fiddle with the knobs you like what happens.


    To my understanding, a non-LP profile vs a profile with LP will sound (and be) identical, provided you make no adjustments after updating. There is no added magic to 'improve' the existing profile.

    “Without music, life would be a mistake.” - Friedrich Nietzsche

    ... if you don't touch any of the knobs after applying a LP to your "generic" profile - nothing will change sound wise ... as soon as you touch the LP gain or tonestack the profile will change according to the behaviour of the amp of selected LP (i.e. gain range & tonestack behaviour) ....

    To be more precise why I ask is people will often say you can take a high gain profile and it will sound ok turning the gain down but turning the gain up becomes "unnatural". Is that solely because it may go out of the gain range of the original amp? Or is it because the gain actually sounds different when using a Liquid Profile?

    So if I understand correctly, Speaking only of the gain control, LP adjusts the taper and the amount of gain on tap and has nothing else to do with the way the gain sounds.

    A proper LP will have the gain increase mimic/match what the amp would actually do. I believe its more than just a simple taper, otherwise they'd have done this ages ago.

    “Without music, life would be a mistake.” - Friedrich Nietzsche

    Quote from Ruefus

    A proper LP will have the gain increase mimic/match what the amp would actually do. I believe its more than just a simple taper, otherwise they'd have done this ages ago.

    If that is so it would be much more complicated than just the taper/amount. The distortion type could change depending on the amp and how high it is turned up. That is the question I am seeking, whether the gain is still like the generic gain in different amounts or it actually changes the gain itself like the actual amp does, if that makes sense.

    Quote from Dynochrome

    If that is so it would be much more complicated than just the taper/amount. The distortion type could change depending on the amp and how high it is turned up. That is the question I am seeking, whether the gain is still like the generic gain in different amounts or it actually changes the gain itself like the actual amp does, if that makes sense.

    If the tone stack and gain controls are being modeled - and they are - then yes, the gain should behave differently.


    If it were a simple taper value, Kemper (or someone else) would have done it years ago. No one did - and even none other than Eric Klein (Chief Product Design Architect at Line6) congratulated them.

    “Without music, life would be a mistake.” - Friedrich Nietzsche

    Quote from Ruefus

    If the tone stack and gain controls are being modeled - and they are - then yes, the gain should behave differently.


    If it were a simple taper value, Kemper (or someone else) would have done it years ago. No one did - and even none other than Eric Klein (Chief Product Design Architect at Line6) congratulated them.

    So then even without touching any controls, just inserting a LP stack would change the tone as the gain would be modeled at that position as opposed to having generic gain controls applied.

    No. Because the gain the amp was profiled at - the static setting - was accurate. What generic gain could never do was mimic the specific amps reaction for the reasons you mentioned.

    “Without music, life would be a mistake.” - Friedrich Nietzsche

    The difference is evident when you think of an amps (high gain) Lead Channel. Even with gain reduced almost all the way down, it may offer still plenty of gain. Also the sound can change dramatically (thin and nasty for example) and you usually have to adjust the EQ.


    With a Kemper profile taken from a sweet spot of that Lead channel, generic gain enables the user to bring down the gain to chrunch or even edge of breakup (not possible with the amp at all in this channel) and obtain the initial sound of the profile.


    Changing only the gain with Liquid profiles imitates the channel of the real amp. And it may not be possible to get it to the crunch you want at all (or without sacrife) ... it also replicates the tonal change of the channel (maybe sounding shrill, thin and lifeless) without touching the EQ.

    Quote from Ibot39

    With a Kemper profile taken from a sweet spot of that Lead channel, generic gain enables the user to bring down the gain to chrunch or even edge of breakup (not possible with the amp at all in this channel) and obtain the initial sound of the profile.

    This is a good point, and you can take it one further. Take any 'regular' high-gain profile. Even something like a Triple Rectifier dimed on the most aggressive channel........turn the gain knob on the Profiler to zero. The Profile will play clean. It may (or may not) sound bad - but there will be zero distortion. Something the real amp won't do.


    If I recall correctly, Kemper has said with the generic gain at zero, the Profile *can't* have any distortion.

    “Without music, life would be a mistake.” - Friedrich Nietzsche