Recommended direct Liquid Profiles for JCM800s or Super Lead Plexis?

    I'd love to find some direct profiles that are ground up Liquified, but are direct. I prefer to use IRs and right now, I'm favoring the Ownhammer classic rock (4x12 M25) and the live use version of that as that's my primary use case, playing live with the Kemper.


    Matt Fig had a few that I tried. A Friedman modified Plexi and a JCM800. What I found is that the low end was pretty pervasive...to the point I needed to dial it out with an additional EQ and I don't like to do that. I'm talking the Direct profiles. The full profiles were a little better.


    For reference, one of my favorite direct profiles ever is a Tone Junkie 72 Marshall Superlead on Channel 1. The low end feels almost perfect and the gain structure seems tighter. None of that bassy, wooly stuff when the gain is up. I don't know the original settings though to retro it. I still use it though.


    I also like Reampzone's direct profiles and I have retro'd those because he posted his settings for them. I do like the JCM800s OK. The low end is on the lighter side but very usable when turned up a little more than I'd do on the real thing.


    Live Ready Sound has a few direct liquid profiles of a JMP 2203 and a Soldano that are great. The low end is more prominent than the TJ or Reampzone profiles, but very tweakable and useable.


    It's times like these that I feel like I should go back to modeling as I don't have amps to profile the exact sound I want. But, the liquid stuff has helped keep me going with the Kemper because I'm so used to it. Just gets painful trying to fine the right profiles for the exact sound I want.

    We chatted at some length about direct profiles a while back - sounds like you're still having very similar experiences to me in terms of trying to find the right tones, even with DI plus IR - and after several years of getting some great tones from the Kemper, but never quite the ones I was after, I have recently decided to go back to modelers... The final decider was actually liquid profiling! Had high hopes for it, but it still feels like post or pre EQ to a pre-determined snapshot to me - definitely more natural that stock EQ, but still not the same as simply adjusting the tonestack on a real amp or good modeler.


    After realising LP wasn't all it was cracked up to be, I decided to load up Amplitube, which I'd used pre-kemper, and definitely doesn't sound as realistic or feel anything like as good as Kemper, BUT - I was reminded how super-easy it was to dial in a good basic tone using just the tone stack - and what really made me shelve the Kemper was this:


    I was able to use a whole bunch of IR's that I'd never managed to make work before with Kemper profiles - e.g. Tonehammer and York Audio - generally regarded as some of the best, but the thing is you need to find a profile that works with them. What I'd end up doing with the Kemper was choosing an IR basically to fix whatever was tonally wrong with the DI profile - e.g. darker for a harsh profile, brighter for a muddy one etc. - as opposed to choosing the type of speaker or cab or mic I really wanted. With Amplitube, I was able to very quickly set up JCM800 sounds with a variety of workhorse IR's that I could never get to work with Kemper profiles (e.g. Tonehammer's studio essentials Mesa V30 and York Audio's Marshall M25) and hence get some of the basic classic rock tones that I've bought untold amounts of profile packs trying to capture.


    Now I'm definitely not sticking with Amplitube... It does lack some realism overall, and the feel is stiff - so as soon as I've finished a current orchestral project and have some time to properly demo it, I'm going to order an FM3. But there's no question (after how easy it was to set up these sounds on Amplitube and how powerful the IR's became in terms of variety of tones when you could actually adjust the tonestack to suit each one) that I'm done with profiling or any other sort of captures. If you make your own profiles I'm sure it's great. If you happen to have pickups same or very similar to a profiler with similar sonic aesthetics to you, then you're probably good. But if you want a wide range of 3rd party tones to work with less common pickups... well ultimately it just became a very frustrating experience.


    And as to why I'll still on the forum - well I haven't actually sold the Kemper yet, and do check in occasionally to see if there have been any new developments, or new profiles that may be worth trying. And while I know this reply isn't really that useful to the question you asked, thought it'd be worth sharing my conclusions - if you have access to any modeler, try what I describe, and when you see how easy it is to get the sort of sounds you're probably after via tonestack adjusting and IR choice, you may also conclude that profiles aren't the solution ;)

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    Well...to update you and myself, 2 things


    1) I did find that Celestion Dark 57 IRs work well with the MattFig DIs which are bass forward. FWIW, his studio profiles are not. I was using OH RockBox B3 classic IRs. Turns out the Celestions have less "ass" by default and while they are bright (like Yorks are for me), the Dark version keeps the highs and lows in check for the MattFig profiles. Other DI profiles behave differently


    2) I picked up a Helix LT to replace a Helix Stomp XL. With some EQ, I find I'm really digging dialing in direct tones with that set up. I'm using the LT live in my new band when going hybrid...direct to board and also through a Fryette Power Station to OS 2x12 on stage.


    I found that it took me some time to understand the nuances of the LT and how to get my sound there. With the Kemper, I think stumbling back onto the Celestions (which I dismissed long ago) made those MattFig DIs work great.


    Maybe more than anything, I get caught up in EQ'ing by sight (what I think it should be from amps) vs sound and I kill too much time dialing that way. Thinking more on this...there are SO many ways to EQ in the digital amp world that you can chase your tail very fast.

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    Yes, the Celestion IR's with Kemper profiles worked really well for me too - and I also got some really good sounds out of Matt Fig's profiles this way. It's funny, with both M Fig's and Guidorist's profiles I really didn't like the "studio" versions (all too bassy/muddy) BUT they were some of the best profiles I found when paired with Celestion IR's (the G12M65's, MD421 balanced 2x12 ended up being my favourite most times).


    But again, here's what I found really interesting when trying a bunch of different IR's with a modeller - if you google "best IR's", time and again you'll hear complaints that Celestion are "thin"/"flat" - never really got this using the Kemper, as all the most popular ones, York, Ownhammer etc, were all unuseably dark and indistinct with any profiles I tried, whereas Celestions made them come to life. Nonetheless, the tonal balance was never quite right no matter what I did with EQ (including liquid) - but then, trying different IR's with a modeller, setting up amp EQ to suit each IR, I did start to see what people were saying - York and OwnHammer did start to sound much better, bigger, "3D" etc. once I could set up the amp to suit them! Hence why I feel like the Kemper is constraining in that I ended up choosing IR's more to fix the tonal balance of the profile than anything else.


    btw, Helix is my 2nd choice after Fractal (which I still haven't actually bought yet... still busy...). Not sure I understand what you're saying about EQing by sight vs sound though?? As in, you have trouble dialing in amp or modeller's EQ stack at night, or was that a mis-type??

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    Quote from alligatorlizard

    btw, Helix is my 2nd choice after Fractal (which I still haven't actually bought yet... still busy...). Not sure I understand what you're saying about EQing by sight vs sound though?? As in, you have trouble dialing in amp or modeller's EQ stack at night, or was that a mis-type??


    Fixed ^^