And here he comes again....

Guys really, give it a break. Scott's a good guy. He owns an AxeFX II and as such wouldn't you expect him to backup his gear choice? He's also worked tightly with Cliff and had to defend modeling in general against tube purists for many years. So what! Does that mean that now when you plug in your Kemper the tones suddenly don't sound good? What's the difference in him or even Cliff pointing out aliasing versus the super thread started by Miles? My position is the aliasing is an extremely minor thing which has been blown way out of proportion by folks who care more about the competitive nature of the product they own rather than the tones they actually get from it. Nothing is perfect in this world. If everyone had the same opinion the world would be a very boring place. Let's dedicate this forum to the Kemper, not ridiculous my Dad-can-beat-up-your-Dad nonsense.

Quote from Will_Chen

Guys really, give it a break. Scott's a good guy. He owns an AxeFX II and as such wouldn't you expect him to backup his gear choice? He's also worked tightly with Cliff and had to defend modeling in general against tube purists for many years. So what! Does that mean that now when you plug in your Kemper the tones suddenly don't sound good? What's the difference in him or even Cliff pointing out aliasing versus the super thread started by Miles? My position is the aliasing is an extremely minor thing which has been blown way out of proportion by folks who care more about the competitive nature of the product they own rather than the tones they actually get from it. Nothing is perfect in this world. If everyone had the same opinion the world would be a very boring place. Let's dedicate this forum to the Kemper, not ridiculous my Dad-can-beat-up-your-Dad nonsense.

I could care less what others use - I'm suspect because I still have 20+ tube amps and a room full of cabs. It's just watching a company owner behave in that fashion and a moderator cover for him time and time again. And then remind you how impartial he is. The posts about how we don't know who Cliff is talking about regarding aliasing were interesting to say the least.

Really Will there's no way you can defend him with a straight face come on!

Quote from Will_Chen

Guys really, give it a break. Scott's a good guy. He owns an AxeFX II and as such wouldn't you expect him to backup his gear choice? He's also worked tightly with Cliff and had to defend modeling in general against tube purists for many years. So what! Does that mean that now when you plug in your Kemper the tones suddenly don't sound good? What's the difference in him or even Cliff pointing out aliasing versus the super thread started by Miles? My position is the aliasing is an extremely minor thing which has been blown way out of proportion by folks who care more about the competitive nature of the product they own rather than the tones they actually get from it. Nothing is perfect in this world. If everyone had the same opinion the world would be a very boring place. Let's dedicate this forum to the Kemper, not ridiculous my Dad-can-beat-up-your-Dad nonsense.

I think that this is not the point.
What Scott thinks about the KPA doesn't change my feel towards the kpa.
BUT we must admit that it's quite unusual to see a moderator supporting rude users, dressing their behavior as "science".
The difference between Cliff and Miles is that Miles wants an issue to be solved, while the first is trying to demonstrate how bad the KPA sounds.
And Scott is agreeing with him, even if he's not a CEO of another company and probably he has NEVER tried a KPA.
From a certain point of view i find that Cliff's behavior is way more acceptable (even if very childish) than Scott's one. Because Scott has a specific function, which is NOT to support his gear but to be impartial towards users being unpolite or not respecting the rules.
I'm really sorry about that since I think he's a good person, but this time he's making big mistakes.

+1000

BS. Scott's function is to be a robot? He's made a gear choice. By that very nature he is biased. We are all biased when it comes to the gear we use as we use it for a reason. And it makes zero difference if a flaw is publicized to try and hurt a company's rep or simply to bring it to the attention of a company, the end result is the same: public discussion regarding a bug and bad publicity (until its addressed). Do you guys think more folks saw Cliff's initial analysis on the AxeFX forum (bleeding over to TGP) or miles'? Cliff already had to answer to the competition when all his poo-pooing of profiling being a substandard methodology backfired with users demanding a similar function in the Axe (Tone Match). I would argue that if one's goal is to bring it to the attention of a company, that could be done very effectively privately and worked through with beta testers. Scott didn't quote Cliff, but CK regarding Kemper aliasing. Cliff's "horrible" descriptor was clearly trolling, but again so what? Who cares what a competitor says? The proof is in the tones generated by the unit.

My defense of Scott is that he is human, nothing more...just like the rest of use. I made my peace in the thread early on and then bowed out as I knew the direction it was going. And I would suggest you guys who are members there take the same position. Pages of yelling back and forth accomplishes nothing but create a schism in the community. TGP's digital and modeling forum is the most platform agnostic forum out there with regards to modeling. People who read the thread will come to their own conclusions one way or another.

The Kemper is more or less a beta product. We are on a beta firmware 1.52. How many revisions has the Axe had? 11 for the first series and something like 8 for the second? The aliasing issue will not be the last bug and we likely have a bunch of features yet to be released. Relax guys and just enjoy the gear choice you've made. Its not a war. That's all I have to say on the topic.

Cliff has always come off pretty smug and douchey to me - even if they sounded good I would be less inclined to buy his products because of this.

Just words out of desperation. Competition comes along with a device that's better sounding and easier to use that's $1000 cheaper... you're probably pretty desperate to hold on.

Quote from okstrat

I could care less what others use - I'm suspect because I still have 20+ tube amps and a room full of cabs. It's just watching a company owner behave in that fashion and a moderator cover for him time and time again. And then remind you how impartial he is. The posts about how we don't know who Cliff is talking about regarding aliasing were interesting to say the least.

+1 Pete.

Scott's typical KPA-oriented posts usually go something like this: Attack or try to correct someone's observation + Belittle their opinion + Make a few sentences about how he rises above all of this and just wants everyone to play their guitar.

Quote from Will_Chen

BS. Scott's function is to be a robot? He's made a gear choice. By that very nature he is biased. We are all biased when it comes to the gear we use as we use it for a reason. And it makes zero difference if a flaw is publicized to try and hurt a company's rep or simply to bring it to the attention of a company, the end result is the same: public discussion regarding a bug and bad publicity (until its addressed). Do you guys think more folks saw Cliff's initial analysis on the AxeFX forum (bleeding over to TGP) or miles'? Cliff already had to answer to the competition when all his poo-pooing of profiling being a substandard methodology backfired with users demanding a similar function in the Axe (Tone Match). I would argue that if one's goal is to bring it to the attention of a company, that could be done very effectively privately and worked through with beta testers. Scott didn't quote Cliff, but CK regarding Kemper aliasing. Cliff's "horrible" descriptor was clearly trolling, but again so what? Who cares what a competitor says? The proof is in the tones generated by the unit.

My defense of Scott is that he is human, nothing more...just like the rest of use. I made my peace in the thread early on and then bowed out as I knew the direction it was going. And I would suggest you guys who are members there take the same position. Pages of yelling back and forth accomplishes nothing but create a schism in the community. TGP's digital and modeling forum is the most platform agnostic forum out there with regards to modeling. People who read the thread will come to their own conclusions one way or another.

Not true. Opting for one or another option, or expressing a preference does not mean that you have to be biased.

Some threads always end up the same way, and you will notice most of the time it is the same people making that happen. I don't think it is ethic that a CEO talks about their competitors products in the way he is doing it. At least he should have the courage of naming the product he is referring to and continue the discussion he started instead of letting (intentionally or not) someone else do the dirty job for him.

Quote from Will_Chen

The Kemper is more or less a beta product. We are on a beta firmware 1.52. How many revisions has the Axe had? 11 for the first series and something like 8 for the second? The aliasing issue will not be the last bug and we likely have a bunch of features yet to be released. Relax guys and just enjoy the gear choice you've made. Its not a war. That's all I have to say on the topic.

Not a beta product but maybe an unfinished product in a minor degree than the Axe. It is entirely up to you to use beta firmwares or use non beta releases.

in the end cliff got exactly what he wanted out of this. he could not handle a thread where folks might realize moar dsp != better, so sent it off the rails. this is how trolls work, and everybody, included kemper fans and a mod on the forum, took the bait. the suggestion to lighten up is a good one... though conflating a good thread on this forum with that mess is not.

Quote from Jimmyno

The difference between Cliff and Miles is that Miles wants an issue to be solved, while the first is trying to demonstrate how bad the KPA sounds.

For the record, I support Kempers efforts, love the KPA, don't own an AxeFX product, have the purest intentions in my observations of the KPA, never imagined the aliasing thread would grow that much, and dislike the politics and the competition notion immensely. I agree with Will Chen when he says "The Kemper is more or less a beta product" and "The aliasing issue will not be the last bug and we likely have a bunch of features yet to be released. Relax guys and just enjoy the gear choice you've made." As artists, we can't help but look at another artists work and think: 'If only he would have (fill in the blank)'—the KPA is that work of art.

men....can't live with them, can't live without them....

There is a lot of work and money involved - so I understand when Cliff get's nervous.

In the end he is a (great) engineer not a PR guy - and it's his baby.

btw. I love both Windows and Mac OS, real tube amps and digital gear, classic music and heavy metal, Fender and Gibson, the KPA - but would still love to have some AxeFx effects and a unit without aliasing artifacts ...

eh, any chance someone could do a quick copy / paste off of TGP thread of what Chris said that has caused this ruckus?

I dont have an account with TGP and I dont want to get one (and the spam risk that comes with it!) for the sake of 1 post.

All this discussion has piqued my curiosity though.

Case in point about horsepower and technology:
Apple iPhone5 vs Samsung Galaxy S 3.
1.2Ghz Dual Core A6 processor, 1 GB RAM vs Quad core 1.4Ghz Cortex-A9

On paper the GS3 should be able to way outperform the iPhone 5, but in reality and in benchmarks, the iPhone 5 outperforms the GS3.

Generally speaking, properly implemented code on moderate hardware will almost always outperform poorly implemented code running on cutting edge hardware, and at a much better price point too. This is true for most technology products on the market today. But when you couple properly implemented code with cutting edge hardware...hooo boy, you got something nice there!

I totally agree with optimal code running on best of class hardware being the best. Apple has solid code....but nowhere to make gains since it is highly optimized out of the box. The Android code is not optimal but the hardware has better specs. The Android has room to grow. I believe the Kemper is more closely comparable to to the Android scenario....and I am glad for that. Let the development continue!

Look at the number of OS releases for Android and the number of FW releases from Kemper. Very similar. Each release brings improvements. That's good for the user and ultimately yields a better product as time goes on.

Apple is a great company....but Kemper does not follow their proprietary philosophy based on what I've seen.

bd

Guys, it really is not nice to slander in other forums about people/Scott. We can do better then other forums.... you all know what I mean.
He's just a guy who likes his gear and defends it - nothing more - like 743262387432 others too. Of course he is not objective (and if he didn't get at least the Axe for free then he clearly is doing something wrong... I know people getting heavy discounts on the Axe for posting good stuff on forums... but that's another story)... are you? I think I'm not 100% because I really love the KPA I think he just shines out because he seems to be everywhere :D. When I wrote with him in private he always was very nice and in no way disrespectful about the KPA or other competitors.

Of course Cliff acts a little bit childish but what do you expect when an engineer loves his product? "Yeah, the Axe2 has more DSP power but still the KPA sounds better" ... that wouldn't make any sense. Look at Samsung vs. Apple. Samsung has ridiculous arguments too "Yeah, so the S3 has 1,5GHz quadcore OMFGLULZ!!!!1!!111!" (* and still the iPhone5 with a dual core is much faster).

That's just normal and to be expected when there are 2 competitors (before the KPA there was no competitor to the Axe).

Why don't you just ignore all those KPA vs. Axe BS and enjoy playing your unit