I am crazy

Quote from viabcroce

I'm not sure there are no evidences of the process. Wooden acoustic instruments do sound better with the time (?)
A discussion is open whether this applies to solid body guitars as well, considering that (unlike acoustic instruments) the wood of a solid body subtracts frequencies to the string rather than adding any.
OTOH, subtracting freqs is a way to generate the overall tone too, but it is true that in a solid body the neck and the PUs are responsible for the most part of the guitar's timbre.

No real conclusion from me here, except that while I'd recommend it for wooden, acoustic instruments, I'd not spend my money on it for a solid body.

QUALITY BUILT acoustic instruments.

Keep going! But I just would like to know: are you testing a solid body guitar, acoustic or archtop?

Many say (Mr Scott "tourette" Grove being one of them): wood does not matter because the pickups only receive magnetical waves. That's nonsense, it is a complex system. The strings vibrate, the vibration transfers to the body and neck and the vibrations of body and neck also transfer back to how the strings vibrate. You can test it: put your hand flat on the back of a solid body electric and play (or better have someone else play) some notes. Then you can feel the vibrations and, what's more, you can feel that on every different note there are different regions of the body resonating.

Of course the pickups don't pick up the vibrations of the wood. But the strings do. And the strings are picked up very much by the PUs, aren't they?

Quote from fretboardminer

Of course the pickups don't pick up the vibrations of the wood. But the strings do. And the strings are picked up very much by the PUs, aren't they?

From a spectral POV, the contribution the body gives to the overall timbre in a solid body is much lesser than the neck's one. I know, it's counterintuitive and goes against radicated beliefs. But tests have been done by several (professional) people to show this. It depends on the role each part plays in terms of mechanical coupling.

Quote from uweoverdrive

But even if the theory is true that the neck and the pickups have the greatest impact for a guitar it could work because the vibrations of the
system work on the neck too.

It's not a theory... But what you say is true nevertheless! Applying the vibrational energy straight to the neck would speed the process up

Quote from fretboardminer

Keep going! But I just would like to know: are you testing a solid body guitar, acoustic or archtop?

Many say (Mr Scott "tourette" Grove being one of them): wood does not matter because the pickups only receive magnetical waves. That's nonsense, it is a complex system. The strings vibrate, the vibration transfers to the body and neck and the vibrations of body and neck also transfer back to how the strings vibrate. You can test it: put your hand flat on the back of a solid body electric and play (or better have someone else play) some notes. Then you can feel the vibrations and, what's more, you can feel that on every different note there are different regions of the body resonating.

Of course the pickups don't pick up the vibrations of the wood. But the strings do. And the strings are picked up very much by the PUs, aren't they?

The solid body electric guitar was built primarily to reduce resonance and control feedback in order to allow amplification at higher volumes. The only way you can force a dampening object to resonant is by continuous stimulus creating a feedback loop (ie amplified sound causing the strings or winding on a pickup to vibrate which is translated back to amplified sound). When you feel an electric guitars body vibrating, it is due to its dampening effect (energy being lost from the strings into the body). In other words, if your electric's body is resonating significantly then the method of energy transference must be extremely efficient which would result in less sustain of the string. The more rigid a body, the less it can be displaced and the longer the sustain and the brighter the tone as less high end overtones are dampened. If it were true that significant energy was transferred in both directions, a guitar would sustain for an infinite period as the energy would continually be transferred back and forth.

Now of course, all objects resonate at their natural frequency for which overtones can also be affected. But to change the natural resonance of an object, there has to be some physical change to an object. But really when it comes down to it, there is no resonating chamber in a solid body electric and as such you can not hear the body resonance in an amplified scenario as we are dealing with a magnetic field disturbance being converted into electrical signals (how a pickup works), not diaphragm displacement via sound wave (a microphone). As every pickup in any guitar I have ever seen (with the possible exception of Gibson's P90 mount) is decoupled from the body by a spring, rubber tubing, or foam (or a combination or those) I just can't believe that any body resonance is coming back through the pickups.

If I put one on my guitar, will it make the guitar sound like Jimi Hendrix?

Will, a piece of wood can change its resonating characteristics because its internal structure (unlike synthetic and syntheric objects) is coherent but not isothropic.
Mr. Di Marzio himself advises to store electric guitars in a room where there's music going, even tho he clarifies that the effect os less noticeable than on an acoustic guitar.

For those able to read Italian or willing to cope with google translator there's a symilar thread here:

http://people.accordo.it/article.do?id=70357

Quote from viabcroce

Will, a piece of wood can change its resonating characteristics because its internal structure (unlike synthetic and syntheric objects) is coherent but not isothropic.
Mr. Di Marzio himself advises to store electric guitars in a room where there's music going, even tho he clarifies that the effect os less noticeable than on an acoustic guitar.

For those able to read Italian or willing to cope with google translator there's a symilar thread here:

http://people.accordo.it/article.do?id=70357

In other words, any guitar which has ever sat on the wall at a music store or on a stand in a studio is corrupted from the start. In order for wood to change its resonating character it would have to be excited enough to change its structure in some physically measurable way. Seriously, you would be able to take a sample under a microscope and examine its structure before and after and measure the difference. With the thin top on an acoustic instrument (especially unfinished), I can see that happening over time. But with a piece of solid wood nearly 2 inches think? Doubtful IMHO unless we're talking some very violent activity taking place or literally decades of playing at auditorium levels. Guess I'm a skeptic, if Jimi Hendrix (and countless others) bought guitars off music store walls and was able to do what he did, who am I to argue...

So y'all are telling me that strapping a guitar to a jackhammer will dramatically improve it's "sound"? Why am I skeptical about this claim?

Quote from Will_Chen

In other words, any guitar which has ever sat on the wall at a music store or on a stand in a studio is corrupted from the start. In order for wood to change its resonating character it would have to be excited enough to change its structure in some physically measurable way. Seriously, you would be able to take a sample under a microscope and examine its structure before and after and measure the difference. With the thin top on an acoustic instrument (especially unfinished), I can see that happening over time. But with a piece of solid wood nearly 2 inches think? Doubtful IMHO unless we're talking some very violent activity taking place or literally decades of playing at auditorium levels. Guess I'm a skeptic, if Jimi Hendrix (and countless others) bought guitars off music store walls and was able to do what he did, who am I to argue...

Vibration can alter the temperature of wood (up and down). When temperature change occurs this causes the wood to absorb or release moisture and we all know that this affects how a guitar sounds. Whether this device works or not I have no clue but vibration over time has a direct or indirect effect on wood acoustic properties.

Here is an interesting read http://www.acousticguitar.com/gear/advice/vibration.shtml

Sound waves are groups of molecules exhibiting an organized pattern of high and low pressure waves. But Temperature is the average of molecule velocities. You can alter the high and low pressure of air in a room (sound waves) but still have the same temperature (same average velocity of molecules). Compression waves don't alter the average velocity in any significant way. On top of that, you aren't going to transfer from Air to Wood any change in temperature, since the wood will be the same temperature as the room. Unless what is vibrating is doing so directly on the guitar causing friction which will heat up the guitar. But you can do that with a vibrator or better yet, get a sander and get the job done fast!

Water Molecules in some areas may be trapped by the guitar's various coatings, and would be more subject to change by actual temperature and humidity.

In other words, a fat belly's heat transfer will cause more velocity and flight of water molecules than ANY sound source.

And NONE of these things will "Improve" the sound of the guitar. In fact, any alteration is just causing a change in your setup, likely requiring you to setup your guitar again (neck adjustments). Changes in humidity can cause acoustic guitar sound brackets to come loose or any guitar neck to warp, requiring a rod adjustment to keep your action the way you like it.

...that's why BB King's sound is so unique....

Quote from MadH

Vibration can alter the temperature of wood (up and down). When temperature change occurs this causes the wood to absorb or release moisture and we all know that this affects how a guitar sounds. Whether this device works or not I have no clue but vibration over time has a direct or indirect effect on wood acoustic properties.

Here is an interesting read http://www.acousticguitar.com/gear/advice/vibration.shtml

While variation in temperature might have an affect on absorption of humidity, that absorption would only be temporary and the wood would return to the relative humidity of its environment in time unless of course that temperature was enough to permanently alter the structure of the wood. Plus, remember we're speaking of a solid body electric guitar which is sealed preventing and rapid transference of the environment into/out of the guitar. Anyone every done double blind testing to try and validate any of this stuff?

But the bigger point is this I guess. If an athlete puts a holographic sticker on his arm and then has a great game and believes it's due to the sticker, then more power to him. That's the type of scenario we're talking about here IMHO. The cause is inconsequential. Anyone has the right to spend their time and money on whatever they see fit. If they believe it improves their technique or tone then more power to them. Me personally, when I'm feeling my tone isn't quite there its typically time to start running some scales, practice inverted chord forms, site reading, etc. If one is at the epitome of technical ability and has a instrument and rig meeting his every need, then perhaps that is the time to seek out some more esoteric techniques to improve tone, but for the mere mortals among us, good old fashioned practice would be my recommendation every day of the week.

Quote from db9091

Sound waves are groups of molecules exhibiting an organized pattern of high and low pressure waves. But Temperature is the average of molecule velocities. You can alter the high and low pressure of air in a room (sound waves) but still have the same temperature (same average velocity of molecules). Compression waves don't alter the average velocity in any significant way. On top of that, you aren't going to transfer from Air to Wood any change in temperature, since the wood will be the same temperature as the room. Unless what is vibrating is doing so directly on the guitar causing friction which will heat up the guitar. But you can do that with a vibrator or better yet, get a sander and get the job done fast!

Water Molecules in some areas may be trapped by the guitar's various coatings, and would be more subject to change by actual temperature and humidity.

In other words, a fat belly's heat transfer will cause more velocity and flight of water molecules than ANY sound source.

And NONE of these things will "Improve" the sound of the guitar. In fact, any alteration is just causing a change in your setup, likely requiring you to setup your guitar again (neck adjustments). Changes in humidity can cause acoustic guitar sound brackets to come loose or any guitar neck to warp, requiring a rod adjustment to keep your action the way you like it.

Display More

Another interesting read http://www.nytimes.com/1996/02…heir-violins-improve.html

"The researchers vibrated beams of spruce at 10 cycles a second for 48 hours and the damping coefficient went down by 5 percent. The changes persisted when the vibrations stopped, they said. Lower damping coefficents mean that a single note is heard longer, which is considered a beneficial attribute."

"When the wood was vibrated in a chamber where the humidity was taken up to 80 to 90 percent, the damping coefficient went up fast before drifting downward, they reported. This resulted in a decrease in damping and increase in stiffness during vibrations that persisted when the vibrations were turned off, they said."

Quote from Will_Chen

Anyone every done double blind testing to try and validate any of this stuff?

Yes there is a guy >> here >> who is doing some kind of A/B.

Quote from Will_Chen

If one is at the epitome of technical ability and has a instrument and rig meeting his every need, then perhaps that is the time to seek out some more esoteric techniques to improve tone, but for the mere mortals among us, good old fashioned practice would be my recommendation every day of the week.

I totally agree on that. Practicing your right hand attac or your fingers in general for an hour a day is worth many hours of tweaking knobs and adapting setups.

Quote from MadH

Another interesting read http://www.nytimes.com/1996/02…heir-violins-improve.html

"The researchers vibrated beams of spruce at 10 cycles a second for 48 hours and the damping coefficient went down by 5 percent. The changes persisted when the vibrations stopped, they said. Lower damping coefficents mean that a single note is heard longer, which is considered a beneficial attribute."

"When the wood was vibrated in a chamber where the humidity was taken up to 80 to 90 percent, the damping coefficient went up fast before drifting downward, they reported. This resulted in a decrease in damping and increase in stiffness during vibrations that persisted when the vibrations were turned off, they said."

In the experiment they took a soundboard and vibrated it in a high humidity environment (80 to 90 percent). For any musical instrument, the wood must be dried in order to avoid the instrument warping. And again, we are speaking of solid body electric guitars, a very, very, very different instrument. The article is referring to the test stiffing the soundboard to lower its dampening in order to increase sustain, read my earlier post. We've already taken care of that in a solidbody as our soundboard is nearly 2 inches thick and of nearly infinite stiffness in compared to a spruce soundboard.

Also from your article:

Quote

Dr. Hunt attributed the changes in the wood to a redistribution of moisture in the wood caused by the vibration that remained stable for several days after the test. Over time, perhaps months, he speculated, the wood was expected to go back to its initial state of equilibrium unless the vibrations were applied periodically.

So every few months taking the instrument and subjecting it to mechanical resonance at high humidity? My bet is that guitar will self destruct in less than 5 years.

OK, enough arguing from me, you fellas have at it.