Does anybody know a really polytempic sequencer software?

    I am helping a fellow composer on his score about polytempic music. That means the string section goes in 60 Bpm while the choir is in 100 Bpm and a few more other groups have all different tempi. So it is not polyrhythmic (different measures, although this occours too) but polytempic (different tempi, which is the problem). This is really crazy to notate in FINALE. I know, there is no direct connection to the Kemper Profiling Amp but I am grateful for every tiny little hint. I don't know much about sequencing software but I know many of them today can produce score grafics too. But can they handle polytempics?

    www.audiosemantics.de
    I have been away for quite a while. A few years ago I sold my KPA and since then played my own small tube amp with a Bad Cat Unleash. Now I am back because the DI-profile that I made from my amp sounds very much convincing to me.

    I think this idea would break the whole idea of time based sequencing in such kind of software.
    It would require multiple play heads and it would pretty much forbid any "sequencing" of multiple tracks in a visually logic way.


    So I really doubt there would be a "timeline" based sequencer to achieve that.
    Maybe a "step tracker" software could layer different tracks with different tempo. But I'm not using this kind of software.


    Cheers,
    Martin

    Polytempic? Huh, does it actually sound cohesive or just chaotic? My suggestion would be to write the parts in separate projects and render them to waves and re-import them to a neutral project. You can align the wave files with no regard for time with all the DAW platforms I've tried (Sonar, Cubase, Reaper).

    Quote from lightbox

    Maybe a "step tracker" software could layer different tracks with different tempo.

    Thanks for that hint. I will have to investigate that. I also don't know this program. The optical representation should not be a problem, each track has it's own grid according to it's given tempo:
    [Blocked Image: http://www.audiosemantics.de/FORUMS/polytempic.jpg] 
    Technically they are somehow close to it, as many have algorithms to open up the rigid time frame for "human touch" corrections. But, yes it would need multiple playheads. I think this is another point where the biggest problem is the lack of demand in the wider music production szene.


    Quote from Will_Chen

    Polytempic? Huh, does it actually sound cohesive or just chaotic?

    No it's not cohesive and not chaotic, it is polytempic. Each of the groups play tight in their tempo but all groups have different tempi. I heard this when I was at the Fusion festival and heard different bands play at different stages at the same time. Charles Yves did this hundred years ago by having different orchestras play at different corners of the market place.


    The problem is, it will be performed by a symphony orchestra. The conductors need printed sheet scores on paper. So every solution based on audio files and time-stretching won't work. And the polytempics only appear for a short moment and after that they all have to meet again at a certain measure and from there on they go together again. That is quite a riddle ... ?(

    www.audiosemantics.de
    I have been away for quite a while. A few years ago I sold my KPA and since then played my own small tube amp with a Bad Cat Unleash. Now I am back because the DI-profile that I made from my amp sounds very much convincing to me.

    in this case I'd simply give the conductors scores of their parts only where the polytempi happen. no need for them to see the whole score all the time.
    clearly indicate where the shifts happen and where the parts meet up again.
    maybe even indicate/score a few really important cues of the other sections.

    Ah, it's only for a short section of the music. So there will be different conductors leading subgroups at different tempos? Interesting. Hearing different bands playing on multiple stages in my mind is the very definition of chaotic. I'd be very interested in hearing the completed work when it's done. Sounds cool and experimental. He could always do what they did back in the day and put ink to paper.

    Quote from Will_Chen

    He could always do what they did back in the day and put ink to paper.

    :D Yep. That was my first response to him too. A bit of a calligraphic exercise would be less trouble than fighting our way through all those hidden corners of music printing software. The problem is that modern days composers are a bit like us KPA guitar players: we are getting used to having all these EQs and compressors and delays and stuff at hand so easily - there are so many features in modern scoring programs which composers would not want to miss either.

    www.audiosemantics.de
    I have been away for quite a while. A few years ago I sold my KPA and since then played my own small tube amp with a Bad Cat Unleash. Now I am back because the DI-profile that I made from my amp sounds very much convincing to me.

    Interesting idea :)


    I'm maybe missing the obvious, but what I'd do is to open a project for each section (and tempo) and then export them in graphics (pdf, jpeg... whatever) and print them together, or (if the worst comes to the worst) physically paste (glue) them on the appropriate page(s) of the conductor's book one strip by one.
    This way you'd have the best of the two worlds.


    Does it make any sense? :|


    :)

    Quote from viabcroce

    export them in graphics (pdf, jpeg... whatever) and print them together

    This is what I did last time. The problem is, it is a very pedestrian method and takes a lot of time during which there is no more chance to make corrections in the music. The Premiere is already in August. Correcting until the very last moment is very important in these kind of compositions. Also you loose all the other benefits of modern scoring software. I found out a way of tricking polymetrics into polytempics. This is not much less awkward but it can be done all inside Finale. This is the way we go for now. Until someone will write a software that can cope better with multiple timelines.


    Thanks though to all of you for all these suggestions!

    www.audiosemantics.de
    I have been away for quite a while. A few years ago I sold my KPA and since then played my own small tube amp with a Bad Cat Unleash. Now I am back because the DI-profile that I made from my amp sounds very much convincing to me.