Posts by yeky83

Quote from CayleForApocalypse

I started a new thread on this not knowing this one existed (sorry, I'm new).

My idea for the Kemper Mini would be a pedal for stage that stripped all of the profiling features of the Kemper Stage out. You could download rigs and effects but couldn't create new ones. This would limit the amount of memory, tech, i/o and connection options needed.

The look and feel would essentially be the Kemper remote, but instead of controlling the Kemper it houses those rigs internally. Built rugged, built for touring.

The part that would make it take over the world would be if it were powered. Power amps are so small now - the Seymour Duncan Powerstage 170 is a great example - that it makes it seem like a real possibility.

If Kemper could pack all of it in to a single unit that could connect to the front-of-house and power a 4x12 for stage volume while not making people take their prized possession from the studio to filthy, sweaty stages, I think it could be a massive win.

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FYI a Kemper that couldn't profile would need basically the same amount of memory, tech, I/O, connection options, etc. But yup, a powered Kemper Stage would be great.

The SD-1 and TS808 sound the same at the settings shown in the Addendum pictures? lol if you've used them you know that ain't true.

While I have no doubt the new Kemper Drive sounds great, it purports to sound identical with various pedals with just a twist of the drive and EQ settings... no it won't. The Addendum lists various pedals under one umbrella, but they're pedals with different clipping topologies leading to verifiably different sounds.

CK's said before "Our Green Scream is really spot on," but we all know it ain't. When I read in the Addendum "These presets are sonically indistinguishable from the originals," I can't help but think this is another claim that ain't. It probably sounds great though, looking forward to trying it out.

Can anyone tell me what the Slim Down parameter is actually doing? The description is really unclear. Intensifies the tilt filter how? What's it slimming down exactly?

Quote from DonPetersen

depending on the circuit in question, fuzzes can be very sensitive to changes of the guitar's volume pot for exsample (all Fuzz Face circuits like Fuzz Factory etc.) while others don't really care that much and actually just lower the gain quite evenly (more modern fuzzes like Narwhal Industries Pandemic Fuzz)

General statements about fuzzes will only get you so far, because for every 'rule' (guitarists sure do love those) there's at least a dozen exceptions to it if you look long enough or your fuzz collection is large enough

Yup I made a generalization, but I think it's a fair one given that most classic fuzzes behave as I described.

Quote from joshriggs

Has anyone tried profiling profiles and seeing how deep that rabbit hole goes? Could be a fun experiment. ?

Yup! Here:

https://www.thegearpage.net/bo…-with-the-kemper.2003455/

Quote from Delinquent

I think the biggest challenge is going to be in the fuzz department, some of these devices really need to be first in line before the KPA input, I have a Basic Audio scarab deluxe that’s based on a tone bender circurt, love it but absolutely useless in a effects loop.

I also have a Fulltone Octavia and would love to see Kempers take on an Octave fuzz, sometimes gotta get my Jimi on.

My J.Rocket Archer Klone works fine in a loop.

Fuzzes sound like they do because of its impedance interaction with the guitar. Its low input impedance makes for an interactive filter that changes with the position of your guitar's volume knob.

The Kemper has a high input impedance, which is great but it's never going to replicate the impedance relationship and the resulting filter. So even if they put out a killer sounding fuzz it won't do the interactive thing guitarists like about fuzzes.

Sorry to misguide you with the Cab Maker bit. I haven't loaded up an IR into Kemper in a long time so didn't realize Rig Manager supported IRs. Sounds like the better easier option, thanks ST.

So you're trying to run the Kone from Speaker Out and Mesa from Main Out simultaneously, yes?

And turning the Cab off sucks for the Kone, and turning it on sucks for the Mesa.

Try downloading what's called a neutral or null IR, which is an IR that has no coloration as if it's bypassed. Convert it with Kemper Cab Maker utility, and load it into Kemper's Cab section. Now with it loaded, even though you have the Cab on it should be as if you had it off. Both Kone and Mesa will work simultaneously.

Here's some links to get the neutral/null IR:

https://www.strymon.net/faq/by…-with-a-null-cab-ir-file/

http://www.greendog.co.uk/af/cabirs.php#neutralcabirs

EDIT: Also to add, lock the Cab module after you load the null IR so you can flip through Rigs without having to load the IR all the time.

Quote from OneEng1

I think it is difficult for Kemper to get into the sub $500 business. As you have eluded to, they are a high end guitar processor and they don't pretend to be anything else. The device is metal and built like a brick shit house ;). No one thinks their Kemper is going to have any mechanical issues, and they expect it to perform night after night. They also expect it to have industry leading tone.

Kemper can achieve a Kemper "AmpStack-only" pedal with existing IP. Unfortunately, that means re-using the existing LCD and work-flow. The trick is to put all that workflow into something that you can gig with .... albeit not as complete as the Stage, and (as you pointed out), try to keep it from eating into your high end sales ..... too much.

No one in any company anywhere can create a lower cost product that is functionally similar to a higher end one that DOES NOT take some market share from the high end. FYI, this is true of the Stage even now. If I would have had the option of a less expensive Stage vs the Rack and foot controller, I most certainly would have purchased the Stage. I am sure there are many others that would have as well.

The loss of some high end sales is more than made up for by the higher volume in the less expensive product, and the sharing of IP, and the lowering of parts prices due to the significantly higher volume purchases.

In order for Kemper to create a $300-$400 pedal, they would need a major redesign. The stomp would need to be plastic, and the display would need to be smaller in order to keep cost down. Furthermore, the product would need to be designed for manufacturing in a low cost country. Maybe sometime in the next 10 years we could see something like this, but today, I don't see this as an easy reach for Kemper.... even if they had it in em to change their DNA that far

Personally, I distain outsourcing anything; however, if you want to compete with other high volume manufacturing companies, that is a necessary evil in today's world.

Now, to something that was said ..... yes, CK may decide that he has no interest in becoming a billionaire. Not everyone sees their business as needing to reach "the next level". You may be right, and that may be the case with CK. Some people just love running a small company. It is what wakes them up inside.

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How about a Kemper AmpStack pedal for $600, a viable product in your eyes amongst the competition? Or $800 and make it powered, play in the Amp1 market? Oo that one's kind of fun

But yeah, it doesn't seem like Kemper is interested in making a me-too product for the sake of profit.

Quote from OneEng1

I am OK with you (or others) believing that my suggestion "makes no sense". I am fine with your critique; however, I can't fail to notice your lack of substantive content on your own suggestions.

The fact that I am a product manager does not make me right btw. It does make me knowledgeable about how to make a profitable product lineup though.

Sorry to be a naysayer, and you're right, I don't have much of an original idea wrt this topic. I think the often mentioned Kemper AmpStack-only pedal would make sense in terms of using existing IP and BOM to make a lower priced product... But I don't know how it would perform in the market with $300-400 amp pedals like the AmpliFirebox or the Iridium. Would be interested to hear your thoughts.

Quote from ToH2002

I beg to differ here: with 24 bit converters, there is more than enough dynamic range to capture the signal as it is and then do the shaping later within the DAW - typical example being the Slate Digital virtual mic and virtual FX rack: you capture the signal as clean as you can and then add the characteristics of microphones, preamps, compressors etc during the mixing stage. Lots of pro users there, so you can definitely get pro quality from this.

All this flexibility may not be necessary for experienced studio pros, who just "know" what preamp/ comp combination will sound good and are happy to commit this at the recording stage - sometimes fewer options are better at the mixing stage

A separate issue is what your talent is used to hearing in their headphones: it they are used to having a pre-compressed and pre-EQed in their cans, they may have problems with an uncompressed monitor signal. If you still want all the freedom of the "clean" signal, this can be addressed by inserting comp / EQ in the monitor feed to give them what they need.

But it definitely isn't NECESSARY to compress/ EQ before recording to get pro results in the age of 24 bit converters.

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Just to specify it further for fun, 24-bit converters does not mean 24-bit or 144 dB of dynamic range. Well designed ADCs advertised with 24-bit converters typically perform at around 17-bit (104 dB, plenty wrt this thread topic so I'm wasting your time here :P), and the theoretical limit of converters is 20-bit which you get with the really expensive stuff.

Quote from KT66digital

I think this is a great idea, where you'd have a basic framework and you could dial in your characteristics you like.

However I would reduce the list above to:

EQ, with some control over the frequency ranges and bandwidths and placements in the frequency spectrum (treble pre, bass post, etc)

Clipping (above reminds me of the Timmy) Asymm, Symm, soft/hard attribute.

Gain ( I think this is great, but remember this is for overdrive, so just a normal or slightly enhanced gain range)

Compression control

Blend control (dry vs not-dry )

As someone who has literally had hundreds of OD pedals, I think I would prefer the flexibility of above versus having a specific

product.

I have heard that you can stick ODs in front of the KPA.. Haven't tried it tho..

Oh, my favorite ODs are (for now):

Klon: (and Klon variants Tumni, RYRA, Archer(s))

TS9(808): and variants (Maxon 808 Apex, TS808DX (w/boost channel)

Timmys: V2 and V3

OCD

Wampler Paisley Deluxe/Brent Mason Hot Wired

You could do the same with fuzzes and distortions (I classify them differently)

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Soft clipper circuits are called ODs. Hard clippers are distortions. There's more variety in fuzzes, but they're most popularly asymmetric soft-hard clippers.

If a Clipper knob parameter could be made to blend between let's say Soft - Hard - Fuzz (with a lotta Kemper sound design expertise behind the scenes), that'd be a very flexible generic distortion. I think it'd be cool and very Kemper-like instead of having separate OD, Distortion, and Fuzz effects.

Quote from Wheresthedug

As I’ve said several times in the past, I just don’t think models of individual OD pedals is the way Kemper is likely to go if/when they issue updated OD effects.

The way they approached the Delays and Reverbs suggests that they are more likely to create some sort of super flexible generic model which users can tailor to their own requirements. This methodology would conceivably allow us to create our own versions of Koln, TS etc.

I could be wrong but it just seems much more Kemper’s style to do it this way.

I think ODs are harder to cover with a flexible generic model than Delays or Reverbs... for the same reason there's tens of thousands of amp profiles to cover the different amp distortion and EQ characteristics, rather than just a flexible generic amp model.

That said, what could be some knob parameters that would allow for such a flexible generic model? Here's some I thought of for fun:

Characteristic EQ (TS Mid Hump - BB Flat - Treble booster)

Clipping (Asymmetrical - Symmetrical - Asymmetrical )

Clipper (Soft - Hard)

Cascading Stages of Gain (1 - Multi)

Along with bass, mid, treb, pres EQ of course.

I think that would cover a lot of ground. Anything else that might be cool?

Quote from OneEng1

Possibly so. Although it is inevitable that Kemper must do this, or the competition will .... and when they do, they will capture the market before Kemper can respond with a product offering of their own.

At that point, Kemper will simply be FORCED into lowering the price on the stage to compete with what is out in the market .... or see sales slump quickly.

From here: https://www.fractalaudio.com/fm3/

Note, that if Fractal could actually release the thing in volume, they would have a winner on their hands. I would argue that they have crippled the stage interface so severely that it isn't practical for gigging, but it is still a modern AxeFX III at less than 1K .... albeit with a crippled user interface.

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"it is still a modern AxeFX III at less than 1K .... albeit with a crippled user interface"

You have it completely backwards. The FM3 shares the exact same UI as the Axe-Fx III. And it isn't the Axe-Fx III at $1k, as it has a fraction of the power, I/O, available amp and effect blocks, etc. So... completely backwards.

Anyone can say "Kemper should come out with something for the lower priced market." Great, but what and how? It's the specifics that are worth having fun discussing, and your specifics continue to make no sense... which honestly is a strange sight to see from someone who's pulling out their product manager credentials.

Quote from GeetarMikey

Can't remember but the visual bar is pretty much at 3/4 or a bit more.

Check the Wattage Meter to see how much power you're actually running into the cab. Main Manual 7.5, page 90.

Quote from GuitarOfJustice

I believe the Kone is moving to much air, I think I have a better sound quality with speakers for lower volume? or is the Kone also perfect for quiet playing at home/bandroom (alone with no drummer)?

Volume level's got nothing to do with whether you should choose the Kone or not. You can play it quiet if you want... there's volume knobs on the Kemper and whatever power amp you're going to use.

Quote from OneEng1

This is an understandable concern; however, if you sell 10 times more of something that costs you less, you make many times more money.

GM only makes a relatively few Corvettes, and they make great margin on them; however, that isn't where they make their big money from. Trucks and SUV's are the big profit makers in both GM and Ford.

So lets make this product even easier. Lets say it has no ability to edit in place. It simply requires Rig Manager to edit anything and requires a USB connection for that (this will also lower the cost a bit since it wont need a radio module for wifi or bt). All it can do is act as a gig rig. It also can't do MIDI, can't profile, and can only accept 2 external pedals. I didn't explicitly state the feature list, I was more interested in how to re-use the existing IP.

About 10 years ago, Behringer disrupted the market with a digital mixer that offered such a high value to feature ratio that it took over the entire market segment dwarfing all previous competitors in that space.

A Kemper Mini (which I didn't start the thread on btw), could be a market disrupter in a market space (sub 1K) that Kemper simply has no current product line in.

... and I would be willing to bet that IF they do come out with a Kemper MINI, it retains the same ... or nearly identical ... LCD and general Foot controller UI they currently have. It simply would not make any sense at all to make wide spread changes to the firmware to accommodate a different LCD and different user flow.

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The general idea you're putting forth is great -- use existing IP and BOM to make a sub $1k device, which would enter Kemper into a new price bracket and sell many units, profit!

It's just that the specifics you suggest don't make much sense. Your previous suggestion was basically the Kemper Stage for $1k less, and now it's too far the other way with a multi-effects unit that can't be edited at a gig... would be pretty frustrating to use, and dunno why Kemper would want to make such a lame device.

Quote from OneEng1

To be clear, I think it would be a good product idea that would make them money. I am perfectly happy with my Kemper Rack and FC. Even the Kemper Stage offers nothing for me since I like the lack of cable clutter I get with the FC and Rack.

What I think is that the sharing of existing IP to create a new product would make a good business case.

Your statement seems to imply that you believe that the total cost of a product is measured by the number of inches in its length .... which is pretty far from the truth.

Ground up development of a new piece of hardware with firmware costs millions of dollars. This has to be amortized over the units sold to recoup that investment. Reuse of existing work is, by far, the best return on investment.

Until your unit counts get into the hundreds of thousands or millions, the development and maintenance costs of the product are a large part of the unit price.

I also believe that the money made by such a product would pay for the development of a very expensive next generation platform .... which Kemper will need eventually as parts become obsolete.

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I haven't implied any such thing. You proposed a "Kemper Mini" that's basically the same as the Kemper Stage other than being slightly smaller for $1k less. You realize then no one will buy a Kemper Stage anymore, right? lol And it'll eat into the sales of the other Kempers too? And after the main Kemper products get priced out of the market with your proposed Kemper Mini, they'd need to sell 5 times their current sales volume just to break even. If they came out with a Kemper Mini, it wouldn't be the slightly smaller Kemper Stage that you're suggesting they make.

Quote from GuitarOfJustice

So what is better for bandroom / home use? I guess more linear speakers/boxes are the best? Which one are the most linear ones? Monitor? PA? Kemper Kabinet?

I don't need alot of power, just sound output that the RIG profiles are as authentic as possible.

And what is the diffrence between a cabinet and a guitar speaker? or why they call it cabinet simulation and speaker imprint

the question also raises from following

It means that running direct amp profiles without cab with a speaker imprint makes no sense, because its not a cabinet simulation?

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Only you can decide what is better for your band room or home use.

What do you mean "authentic as possible?" Authentic amp & cab sounds? Or authentic DI sounds? This choice is also up for you to pursue.

Read Kemper Main Manual 7.5 page 92-93, "The Sound of Guitar Cabinets versus Mic'ed Speakers" to understand the choices you have available and why you'd choose one over another.

The Kabinet is more versatile than a regular guitar cab. With a regular guitar cab, you have one characteristic sound. With the Kabinet you have a variety of characteristic sounds with Kemper's Speaker Imprints.

Quote from GuitarOfJustice

Thanks, so it tells me I need a Wattmeter in my third party power amp. And I have to check it, if I change the volume or using the bass boost.

My conclusion for a good power amp in general and for Kemper Cabinet:

--> Also prepared for future, diffrent setups / requirements

It should have :

• Class-D digital amplifier hardware with as linear as possible behaviour
• at least 300 Watt peak power output
• stereo output
• 3 outputs or switch for diffrent speaker impedance: 4, 8 and 16 Ohm
• Wattmeter

Did I miss something?

----> What about using a monitor or PA? do I need special outputs on my power amp for having those?

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FYI the Wattage Meter described in the manual is a feature inside powered Kempers. You could buy a separate wattage meter device I guess, but I wouldn't get one just to figure out what to use with the Kabinet.

Look at speaker specs from manufacturers like Celestion or Eminence, and you'll notice there's two power ratings listed -- an RMS and a rating twice the RMS called program power. You can usually pump twice the speaker's rated RMS power with program material and it should be fine. So in the case of the Kone, 200 W RMS rating should mean it'll safely handle 400 W of music/guitar pumped into it. Maybe more depending on the program material and how robust they decided to rate it. I wouldn't overthink it.

Quote from fourstrk

I didn‘t talk about an adapter. This is too far away from the core business and can be done with standard 3rd party hardware.

I meant that the app would also work with modelers being connected to an existing network using ethernet cables. Most mixers are connected to switches / WiFi access points and are controlled via ethernet-based protocols. So could the Kemper be, the Kemper Mini could use a built-in WiFi module, whereas older hardware could be connected to a WiFi access point. It does not matter internally as long as there is an ethernet SOCKET. The physical layer, the ethernet INTERFACE uses does not matter for the implementation of the protocol itself.

However, if they do it, I hope they work TCP based, otherwise syncing / handshaking is a pain. Maybe they even build upon a standard communication protocol that can be consumed by other hardware. Why reinvent the wheel ...

FYI there's a WiFi module in the Kemper Stage, see photos here: https://www.thegearpage.net/bo…ge-this-and-that.2190614/