Why does it sound sharp and harsh

I find it strange that people - particularly ones like you, who have bought something like a Kemper Profiler - still presume to describe sound in terms such as 'digital'.
Nowadays, 'digital' is commonly used to describe 'grainy' or 'harsh'. Back in the good ol' POD days, it was used to describe 'muffled' and 'boxy' sounds. Digital is everything we hate in music, right? You're basically sleeping with the enemy

To the point, though; if you profiled your amps correctly they should sound very, very close. The Profiler tends to lose a bit of cab resonance around the 200Hz region if you didn't output enough low end while refining, but that's easily compensated for.

Short of that, there's something wrong with your recording chain. Bear in mind the Kemper profiling process outputs hotter signals than a guitar, so plan your headroom accordingly - overloaded analog circuits (in your interface, for example) can make things sound sharp, harsh and metallic. So, you know, digital

How do you compare the KPA with your amps?

Did you create your own profiles?
Do you compare the 'amp in the room' and the KPA via studio monitors?

IMHO does the KPA sound VERY close to the real amp - in case the profiling is well done and the used monitor speakers are great.

Hey there,
I don't notice a metallic or harsh sound across all guitars and profiles. Some sound that way for sure, but not all. This sounds like maybe your monitoring setup is not quite the same as your amps. What size are your monitors? I know it's obvious, but size and quality matters. If your amps sit on the floor, and your monitors sit on your desk for example, that can make a huge difference. Also, how close an amp or speakers are to a wall will also make a huge difference. You wouldn't think so, but just for fun try moving one of your monitors onto the floor in the corner of a room, less than a few inches from the walls. That's about as boomy and un-sharp a placement as you will find.

For my practice area, I had to move my monitors around quite a bit to get them to sound not too boomy, not too shrill, and still be practical (I didn't want a big old monitor sitting on a 4 foot post in the middle of my practice room) and even then I had to adjust the response of the monitors a bit. Mine have little +/- 2dB, 4dB high and low switches that are perfect for this kind of tuning.
Also, be sure to compare at similar volume levels, because the way your ears respond is a function of loundness.

Hope this helps.

My only thought really is.....

When I play through decent profiles (such as the favourites on the Rig Exchange or some of the pro ones that cost very little) I am 100% happy with the sound I'm getting. It makes all of my guitars sing and the limiting factor is not the Kemper - it's my playing ability. Which needs work for sure

When I first got the Kemper, I tried profiling both the amps I have. Neither gave me great results in terms of reproducing the sound of my original amps. They both sounded harsher than the real thing.

So what is the difference between me and, say, Andy from the Amp Factory? Well, years of experience with mic placement and decent preamps / outboard gear to put the signal through before it ever gets to the Kemper. And frankly I've always sucked at mic placement. I have a tiny little home studio whereby the amp and me and the PC are close together so setting a mic up is a lot harder than when you have a control room. Especially when, as I mentioned before, I suck at doing it.

So I'm not saying that you suck at doing it. All I'm saying is that, if you are in love with profiles that someone else has made then perhaps the issue is your recording chain when profiling / placement as opposed to the Kemper. If you never like the sound of it, even with a decent pro profile, then you've other issues

The way this sounds to me, is that the OP has not profiled his amps, and is just comparing them to the Profiler.
I belive the close mic'ing makes the difference he's perceiving.
Danniee, this is what you'd hear if you put your ear against the cone of a cranked-up amp!

Try profiling your amps and then compare the profiles to them from a different room.
Another thing you might appreciate is using far-mic'ed profiles, which lack in those brutal highs you find a few cm from the loudspeaker.

HTH

We need to know more about the OP's monitoring situation.
With a good monitor, the miked amp and its Kemper profile should nearly sound indistinguishable.

Of course playing a profile through an FRFR monitor will ALWAYS sound significantly difficult than playi through an actual amp/cab because that's a different paradigm.

So, more information, please.

Quote from danniee

I'm just comparing playing through the Kemper with playing live with a real amp without recording it with a mic.

This comparison by definition is bound to fail like I said above.
You're actually comparing an amp that you listen to off axis incl. room reflections (i.e. amp in the room) with the profile of an amp that was close- miced. This will definitely sound different with a lot more high frequency content than the amp in a room.
As I said this can't be a valid comparison, it's apples to oranges.

You certainly should record your amps . Otherwise you are just guessing at a solution.
I've had a real education in gits and amps since acquiring a Kemper. It's taught me all about finding the right mates for my guitars and the profiles of amps in the Kemper. Remember we don't usually know the settings or guitars that were used for profiling . So even if you have a 59. 5E3, you may not be dialling it up the same as one Andy profiled.....not to mention there is great belief that no two guitars or amps sound exactly the same.

Quote from old crow

Remember we don't usually know the settings or guitars that were used for profiling .

If you use my profiles then you know exactly all settings - and can virtually change the drive or tone control ...

Quote from danniee

I'm just comparing playing through the Kemper with playing live with a real amp without recording it with a mic.

'amp in the room' vs. 'close mic'ed amp sound' strikes again...

funny how the term 'digital' always comes up when describing a more than half a century old year old, tried and tested recording technique.

the amp you play while sitting next to it in a room and the recordings of amps you hear on records (and during live gigs) are two different things, really.
if you want to achieve the amp in the room sound, you'll need to play direct profiles over a guitar cabinet.

or, try to attenuate the high frequencies of a close mic'ed profile and add a good amount of darker room reverb.
hth

Quote from danniee

Ok, that's what I'm starting to suspect. Because when I play through the Kemper, what I am hearing is also a recording through i mic and so on as compared to playing live with a real amp going straight to my ear.

If I remember correctly, I think I do remember that when I hooked a SM57 to my Blackstar HT-5 Combo and recorded the sound, that the recording also sounded more harsh as compared to just listening to the amp live. Could that be true? So maybe it's all about the mixing process in the end?

Please refer to my previous post.

BTW, i'm just trying to be of help

How did you compare the KPA with real amps? Did you stick your ear right next to the speaker like the mic that captured the profile was probably positioned? No, right?

Therein lies the problem: the KPA is supposed to sound like mic'd amp in your typical control room. I know, I know, we want the tone to sound like what we're used to get from the real amp, we'll get to that. Here's a list of things you can try in order to have profiles sounding more like the real amp:

1. Not necessarily related to mic'd amp vs amp in the room, but mind your clean sense setting - you'll find that lower settings help with the harshness and improve dynamics. Lately I've also been playing with dist sens as well, it's an interesting control that helps finding the profile's "sweet spot" for your guitar. CK says it's identical to turning down the gain control in the amp block, but 1) I prefer to preserve the original profile gain setting and 2) if you put, say, a green screamer in front of the amp, the dist sens control will affect the input of that pedal and not the amp anymore.

2. EQ. That's what engineers do when they want to get that raw guitar tone they've captured into a polished, good sounding tone. Here's a starting point for thin and harsh tones: dial a studio EQ in the "X" slot and set the 1st parametric band to Freq 160Hz, Q 0.6 and boost by 1-2 dB until you get a nice "oomph". Then adjust the high shelf to around 5.5kHz and cut by 1-2 dB. If by doing that you lose too much of the good top end, use the 2nd parametric band to add 0.5 dB around 2.9kHz with Q 0.6.

3. Reverb helps add room ambience that isn't part of the profile and won't be there (from the actual room I mean) if your monitor is pointing directly at you. Well you should add room ambience if you're recording anyway, and I personally do it live as well. Here's a starting point: small room with time 1.8s, damping 5.0, mix 40-50%, bandwidth 3.5, frequency -1.5. Then add delay to taste if you like - you might have to lower the reverb mix once you turn delay on.

4. If you're still getting some ice picking on the high strings, try raising the bias in the amp block to something between 1.5 and 3 and/or lowering the definition parameter, but not by much otherwise you'll lose the original character of the profile.

5. If that isn't enough you can also try to lower the high shift in the cab block by -0.1

Good luck!

I'm more than willing to help. But I also believe you should invest some time in reading the manuals.

As for your other questions, profiling does'n involve using a guitar. But usually you tweak the amp before taking the profile, and you do it so that it sounds good with a certain guitar. If you play with an LP and then switch to a Strato on a real amp, you usually change something on the tonestack, don't you?

Switching cabs: it will sound very musical and useable. Not exactly like the profile would sound if it had been taken with that cab tho.
OTOH, you'll realize that a certain amp tweaked in a certain way doesn't always sound good with a other cab mic'ed in a certain way with your guitar(s). But, on the contrary, you'll also find that changing cab can make a profile sound better with a certain guitar and for your tastes

HTH

I use Tills cabs alot. just try it and if you don't like it, don't save it. if you like it, hit store, change the name and you have 2 profiles of that amp, the original is still there.

Quote from danniee

Oh, so it's usually only the bass, mids, treble that is tweaked in order to make that particular profile sound better with the particular guitar? It seems to be the case here

So if I use this profiled JCM800 Hot Mod and change the cab to Till's 1960B Marshall it would at least sound somewhere in the ballpark to what that setup would sound like with the real gear? Or will the 1960 Marshall be colored by the cab used when profiling the JCM800 Hot Mod?

Thank you again.

You can actually tweak whatever you want, I usually change the Definition parameter as well when I use a different family of PUs.
I'd advise you to not rely on pre-cooked rules when using the Prrofiler... Don't be shy at tweaking
Rule of thumb for me: do whatever makes your sound fit the tune or the mix!

As for your second point, I'd say that the two statements you made are both true. But I believe that the most important contribution to the overall sound is the cab (+mic(s)) you add to your rig.