Direct Out Profiling issues Peavey Triple XXX

  • I cannot get a good distorted direct out profile from my Peavey Triple XXX no matter what I try.


    The Triple XXX has a dedicated Line Out (Post Power Amp), I have also tried profiling just the pre-amp from the FX Send as well with no better results.


    I am using the Powerhead Version with the built in power amp


    I have tried:-
    -Multiple different EQ settings on the amp
    -Master volume high, channel volume low and vice versa
    -Master volume low and channel volume low
    -Master volume high and channel volume high
    -Line out on 10, profiler level input low so in the green
    -Line out half was or lower, higher profiler input level also in the green
    -Tube screamer clean boosting the front
    -Straight in amp no boost
    -With refining
    -Without refining
    -Refining with boost still connected and on
    -Refining with boost off


    My chain is guitar > cable > Kemper > Direct Out > Input Amp > Dedicated Line Out > Return Input
    I have my cab connected to the amp for load and for obviously dialling in the amp.


    Once I have profiled the direct out and done the refining (or not) I listen to the result from the Kemper and it sounds quite like you would expect from the D.I. with no power amp, very fizzy but this is also very muddy, basically sounds nothing like my amp at all.


    The definition is usually set at 0.0 after profiling never above 2.1 and that is rare. If I raise the definition to above 9.0 and the clarity to around 1.0 the profile becomes usable, and in some case quite good, especially after a little EQ in the stack section but still doesn't really sound like the amp into the cab, which I gather this way is supposed to do.


    Firmware wise I was on 2.7.3 beta and I made several more attempts to profile the DI from this amp with no great success. I then upgraded to the latest Public Test 2.8 with the new profiling method enabled via system page 8 soft button 4 and profiled the exact same settings as soon as the firmware was installed and while there was a definite minor improvement especially once I had really adjusted the definition from 2.1 to 10.0 afterwards it still doesn't really sound like the amp.


    The exact words from the latest firmware documentation are: "Done! The Profiler will produce the identical sound with your guitar speaker as your tube amp does."


    Now I've heard some excellent DI profiles and used a fair few so we all know it can work with great success, but does anyone have any idea what might be going wrong for me or experienced something similar, I have looked back and read numerous guides/wiki etc but cannot suss this out.


    Could it be the Triple XXX DI doesn't profile well?
    Would I get the correct results placing a dedicated DI between the amp head and the cab and sending that to the return of the Kemper for profiling?


    Thanks in advanced for any help
    Liam

  • It seems that peavey xxx has a inbuilt noise gate, this is from manual "Special noise gate circuitry on Ultra and Crunch channels"
    I have a peavey rockmaster preamp that also has an included noise gate, i got help from a friend that modded my preamp to bypass noise gate but that need some soldering skills,
    after that i got accurate profiles.
    I have heard that peavey xxx is based on peavey ultra (rockmaster preamp is preamp from ultra)
    Probably that's the reason you have bad results.


    One thing that is strange is if this theory is true, i wonder how accurate the commercial triple xxx profiles out there is, unless they were modified.


    Here is my old thread about my issue.
    Not happy with my profiling. [solved]


  • This makes a lot of sense now, and yes the Triple XXX is based around the Ultra, so I know you are bang on the money with your answer. That would also explain why every now and again the Kemper would say I have a noise gate turned on when profiling, although this only happened on the odd occasion I had a tube screamer running in the front end so I assumed it was that giving the "false" noise gate warning.


    I'll take a good read through the post. Thanks for the help.

  • ^^ This. Plus, there's bound to be some kind of emulation happening at the direct out of the Peavey.



    This I'm not certain of, as it is supposed to be a plain Line Out for use with another power amplifier or a speaker emulator. Although there could be some "impurities" running from it that wouldn't be there from a DI box inbetween the head and the cab.

  • Try using a DI box in between the amp and cab (but be careful - you need a special DI box for this). Do you use your amp as poweramp when comparing the KPA profile to the real amp?

    MJT Strats / PRS Guitars / Many DIY Guitars -- Kemper Profiler Rack / Kemper Remote / InEar

  • This I'm not certain of, as it is supposed to be a plain Line Out for use with another power amplifier or a speaker emulator. Although there could be some "impurities" running from it that wouldn't be there from a DI box inbetween the head and the cab.


    Thanks for the clairification, just went through the manual and it is advertised as a line out pre-power amp and post preamp, so it does not appear to have speaker emulation of any kind. Still, if you A/B profiling with the line out vis-a-vis a DI box, you might notice some differences, but what do I know?


    The definitive answer of course is Thumas', you'll have to get that annoying noise gate out of the way to profile accurately.

  • Thanks for the clairification, just went through the manual and it is advertised as a line out pre-power amp and post preamp, so it does not appear to have speaker emulation of any kind. Still, if you A/B profiling with the line out vis-a-vis a DI box, you might notice some differences, but what do I know?


    The definitive answer of course is Thumas', you'll have to get that annoying noise gate out of the way to profile accurately.


    From the manual:
    (26) LINE OUT
    This 1/4" mono (TS) jack provides a post-power amp signal to drive another power
    amp/speaker system while maintaining the amplifier’s tone.


    Yeah will give it a go that way as well, I'm sure I tried this before months ago with the same results.


    Definitely need to get that noise circuitry removed at least temporarily, can't find any guides that could show someone with basic electronic skills and understanding to follow how to do this, just complex circuit diagrams which are a bit above me. Luckily I know a bespoke amp manufacture who could sort this for me.

  • There is a simple two diodes circuit which perform nose reduction. It's should be easy to temporary disable this ;)


    Just mount switch to bypass CR1 and CR2 - and your will be happy:) Find the
    diode CR1 or CR 2 and short both ends with some jumper , cable etc etc.


    Look for crunch sound with diodes and without.1:30


    [Blocked Image: http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v497/Cool_Dave98/diodecircuit_zps607345b3.jpg]

  • Yeah I'm looking into how easy it is to jumper/short these diodes myself with either the switch as the guy in the video has done or use a 1Meg pot like the JSX has to dial it in or out. If not I know a guy who custom builds amps just a couple of miles away who used to work for Marshall and will probably take him 30 minutes to install these mods. I assume that a wire across the two diodes is enough to short it temporarily while profiling from what I make of the schematics???


    Just ordered a cheap Behringer Ultra GI 100 last night should arrive tomorrow. I know with that noise circuit intact I can't get anything usable without cranking the definition up full blast to 10.0, but the initial results are nothing at all like the sound that comes out the actual amp to the cab, Sounds like a very muddy digital fizz, almost like a distortion pedal direct into desk.


    I'm not sure how the Peavey noise circuit effects profiling with a mic and cab the traditional way, never tried yet.

  • I have a 3120 (same amp as XXX) and it works fine for profiling. The green channel on my 6505+ doesn't though with the crunch switch in, it just can't capture the bass end at all but the red channel works fine.

  • If you want to do mod - it is easy - this is not a rocket science:D
    Just put the pictures of the PCB's from the inside of the AMP and I will tell you what to do.
    If you want to temporary bypass just short endings one of the diodes - no matter which one.


    Here you go how to connect 1M pot like in JSX paralel to the diodes. You have to cut out R3 .
    [Blocked Image: http://lh3.ggpht.com/_WbJ1JcTROqQ/Se1RUxUKSFI/AAAAAAAACYA/7xKoWdnLteE/s800/jsx.jpg]

  • Damian will this diagram of the preamp board do for now? I believe the two diodes (CR1 and CR2) in question are just to the left of the V2 preamp valve.


    Also to short one of the diodes do I attach a wire from one of the diodes to the "air" so the current leaves the board?