Your Honest opinion on Kemper as a live rig

    Quote from JimmyK

    Haha you've got a point here, but when I said 'five core tones" I meant "five core tones from different amps". Let's say a fender, a vox, two marshalls and a boogie Pretty much what Kemper claims of being able to do, in a small 5kg box.

    Hmm... and then You say You don't want to use a FRFR but an guitar cab? What cab would give You all these tones?
    You will not get a Fender or a Vox sound from a 4x12 Marshall cab or a Mesa Rectifier sound from an open back Alnico 1x12...
    If You want that flexibility, and I do, the FRFR path is the way to go... it might not kick Your a$$ the same way as that Marshal, but I think if You put 4 Yamaha DXR12 together it would probably do it quite well. :D

    Quote from Janne

    Hmm... and then You say You don't want to use a FRFR but an guitar cab? What cab would give You all these tones?You will not get a Fender or a Vox sound from a 4x12 Marshall cab or a Mesa Rectifier sound from an open back Alnico 1x12...
    If You want that flexibility, and I do, the FRFR path is the way to go... it might not kick Your a$$ the same way as that Marshal, but I think if You put 4 Yamaha DXR12 together it would probably do it quite well. :D

    WIth my Engl E570, my Mesa 2:90 and my 1922 cab I still can get pretty close to all these tones I need, except the Vox maybe... Heavy stuff, but if you come as a second guitar player with your poor Frfr's on the same stage, you simply will be vaporized hahaha :D If I could come as close as this with a lighter rig would be just fine :)

    Quote from JimmyK

    WIth my Engl E570, my Mesa 2:90 and my 1922 cab I still can get pretty close to all these tones I need, except the Vox maybe... Heavy stuff, but if you come as a second guitar player with your poor Frfr's on the same stage, you simply will be vaporized hahaha :D If I could come as close as this with a lighter rig would be just fine :)

    i think you should not consider done with your tries, i mean, there is time, further you will manage to get what you need from kemper


    you must take a time and give a chance for profiling your own gear, then when you play your own profiles thought your own cabinets (the same used for profiling) your will get a better result


    other users already suggested that


    when i profiled my own tube amp sweet spot, i made that using the internal stereo mic from my digital recorder to kemper, was good and i intent to remake it using a very cheap chinese phanton mic that rocks to compare, but in fact i am so happy with this first profile that did not tried to profile again yet...


    also i am wondering about using a dummy load to do some kind of direct profile


    we have time, we can archieve awesome results even on real gigs


    use your stratocaster for make the profiles and you will get an accurated sound


    unfortunatly i do not have any access to a 4x12 cabinet, just my open 1x12 celestion cab, but i will share my favorities list and sure there is many profiles that are very lead friendly and sounds very different one to each other no matter which guitar, pickups or cabs you may use as long as you fix a correct master level that can drive the cabinets, i heared a thounsand profiles throught headphones, solid state amps, class d amps, i am sure about my list being reliable


    kind regards
    Claudio

    Edited 2 times, last by szykman ().

    I have A/B’d my FRFR rig with many of my friends tube amp rigs. My DSR 112 has no problem keeping up, and even my tub amp brothers agree my tone exceeds theirs.


    Live is where the KPA is strongest IMO.

    Quote from JimmyK

    WIth my Engl E570, my Mesa 2:90 and my 1922 cab I still can get pretty close to all these tones I need, except the Vox maybe... Heavy stuff, but if you come as a second guitar player with your poor Frfr's on the same stage, you simply will be vaporized hahaha If I could come as close as this with a lighter rig would be just fine

    I do think that a lot of times when we are doing these kind of comparisons it's all down to physics.
    A tube head through a 4x12 played at a level that sound great (we all know that this combination does not sound anything that we think when played at bedroom levels) does push a serious amount of air.
    This will make our hearing act differently and also we pick up part of the sound as sound pressure in our body. It also strongly interact with Your guitar, even at moderate volumes, and that will impact our impression of the sound.
    So if You want to make a real comparison then You have to use a FRFR rig that can push as much air with a similar directness that a cab. But then Your rig aren't that lightweight any longer...
    The KPA is great but it can't defy physics...

    Couple of things I totally agree on when using cabs ( which maybe relevent)


    1) The KPA does show up the difference between cabs more so than regular amp - it seems as though is more sensitive to "crap" cabs. I found this when borrowing one and it sounded awful, but my cab is sounded fine. This might be linked to point 2....


    2) Regular cabs can mask crap profiles - the smoothing/colouring effect of a cab can hide a poor profile. When I switched to FRFR I had to ditch all my profiles because direct they all sounded pants!! They had been OK through a cab...


    3) FRFR will always sound different to a cab, arguably more prone to a processed sound albeit more complete sound ( when I say processed I mean closer to a recorded amp sound than amp in the room) and less amp "thump". This is the same "thump" you lose going through a PA so fairly obvious


    I'm not suggesting these are the issues, just highlighting the other factors at play here.


    I do stand by the fact you can get a really good sound via a cab and is a killer amp live, but I would not use a cab mic as you miss half the picture ( in my mind). The debate I think is can you get the "same" sound as the profiled amp, which is a harder question because there are more variables...

    I agree with the quality/type of cab argument. I personally use an Avatar 2x12 signature with V30s and try to stick with profiles created using the same speakers. I pulled out my old Randall XL 4x12 with vintage 30s, considered a rock solid touring cab, and it didn't sound near as good.

    Quote from karlic

    I understand their point, but if you have a loud drummer, going DI is a real bonus. My FOH engineer played me some recordings of our miced cabs and the cymbals were as loud as guitar in one of the mics. So separation is key to getting a good mix out front at times. Obviously bigger stages are fine, but we are not always guaranteed that!

    On the small club circuit out here in CA, I may only see the same FOH guy once a year unless he works at two different venues. You would be surprised how many of them are scared to run direct from the Kemper. That is the only reason I never went FRFR.

    Quote from Sunshine

    On the small club circuit out here in CA, I may only see the same FOH guy once a year unless he works at two different venues. You would be surprised how many of them are scared to run direct from the Kemper. That is the only reason I never went FRFR.

    In some small venues there may be issues with direct guitars depending on the setup. With no sound on stage, centre front row audience might not hear a lot of guitar if the PA speakers are effectively going past them. I don't see the problem going direct if there is some kind of cab on stage though.

    Karl


    Kemper Rack OS 9.0.5 - Mac OS X 12.6.7

    Edited once, last by karlic ().

    Like 1
    Quote from karlic

    In some small venues there may be issues with direct guitars depending on the setup. With no sound on stage, centre front row audience might not hear a lot of guitar if the PA speakers are effectively going past them. I don't see the problem going direct if there is some kind of cab on stage though.

    They are just uninterested, really. One example is the Viper room. Using the house drum kit is mandatory and they backline JCM800 reissues. You can bring your own head, but its going through the Marshall cab. The mic is already permanently attached to the cab with a bracket. That being said, those guys know that club and the sound is loud, clear and just powerful. Its a real blast to play in there. It would have been really sweet to hear the Kemper through those monitors.


    Another example would be HOB Anaheim. Nice enough guys but no sound check for support acts once the show gets rolling. Only the opening act and the headliner get true FOH sound checks. The sound tech at the side of the stage does a quick line check and you just go at the first song blindly and hope they get you where you need to be. Another venue backlined with Marshalls that were prob on that stage 20 years before they ripped that place down. That was pre-Kemper.

    Quote from Sunshine

    They are just uninterested, really. One example is the Viper room. Using the house drum kit is mandatory and they backline JCM800 reissues. You can bring your own head, but its going through the Marshall cab. The mic is already permanently attached to the cab with a bracket. That being said, those guys know that club and the sound is loud, clear and just powerful. Its a real blast to play in there. It would have been really sweet to hear the Kemper through those monitors.
    Another example would be HOB Anaheim. Nice enough guys but no sound check for support acts once the show gets rolling. Only the opening act and the headliner get true FOH sound checks. The sound tech at the side of the stage does a quick line check and you just go at the first song blindly and hope they get you where you need to be. Another venue backlined with Marshalls that were prob on that stage 20 years before they ripped that place down. That was pre-Kemper.

    Character building stuff, but no different to most European festivals. You can't spend all day sound checking with multiple bands. As you say, they know their room and it sounds good, so just don't play your best song first!


    Part of the attraction of units like Kemper is the ability to easily arrange your own monitoring setup. We did this long ago to cope with these kind of shows. You can't control FOH, but it is good to not be reliant on unknown monitoring.

    Karl


    Kemper Rack OS 9.0.5 - Mac OS X 12.6.7

    Like 2

    I always take some kind of monitor for myself just so I can control it. Sometimes it's FRFR, sometimes 4 x12.


    I have only found one in house sound engineer in the UK who refused to allow me to go direct, so I had to borrow a 4 x 12 as wasn't sure about miking FRFR which I assume would be fine but never done it. everywhere else has been ok so I think there is some resistance but hopefully it will eventually become the norm..


    Out of interest, he refused because someone had connected a POD 2.0 direct and he said it was horrendous...

    Quote from karlic

    Character building stuff, but no different to most European festivals. You can't spend all day sound checking with multiple bands. As you say, they know their room and it sounds good, so just don't play your best song first!
    Part of the attraction of units like Kemper is the ability to easily arrange your own monitoring setup. We did this long ago to cope with these kind of shows. You can't control FOH, but it is good to not be reliant on unknown monitoring.

    I have considered doing my own wireless in ear monitoring. I have CIEMS. I just need a wireless unit. I could leave one ear out and still hear my leads from anywhere I end up on the stage.

    Unless you have a solid cabin where the tone can be obtained by turning cab simulattor off, the best option is to hook up KPA to main PA through XLR outputs.

    Quote from Sunshine

    I have considered doing my own wireless in ear monitoring. I have CIEMS. I just need a wireless unit. I could leave one ear out and still hear my leads from anywhere I end up on the stage.

    I wouldn't recommend going with one ear out, as you will have a real imbalance and probably play the IEM single driver too loud to compensate. I started with only my guitar in the IEMs and just didn't push them in too far so the band could be heard too.


    With IEMs it is all about persevering, because I know very few people who adjusted to them quickly. After about 10 shows I was completely happy though and wouldn't go back to ear plugs and a deafening backline!

    Karl


    Kemper Rack OS 9.0.5 - Mac OS X 12.6.7

    Like 2
    Quote from csagiroglu

    Unless you have a solid cabin where the tone can be obtained by turning cab simulattor off, the best option is to hook up KPA to main PA through XLR outputs.

    You say this like its either or... I do both so you can control backline/monitor but have great FOH. That is what makes the KPA so good, the flexibility and hence to the originally question of why its such a good live tool..

    Quote from karlic

    I wouldn't recommend going with one ear out, as you will have a real imbalance and probably play the IEM single driver too loud to compensate. I started with only my guitar in the IEMs and just didn't push them in too far so the band could be heard too.
    With IEMs it is all about persevering, because I know very few people who adjusted to them quickly. After about 10 shows I was completely happy though and wouldn't go back to ear plugs and a deafening backline!

    I try to use IEM's, the only limitation is getting them set up at the venue. Most engineers seem happy to set up but definitely via the desk, not direct out from the KPA with one ear out...


    Then your backline is just for the rest of the band :)