Using an Electric Guitar with separate Piezo Out

    I have a PRS P22 with a piezo in the bridge. The piezo can be sent as a blended signal through the main out or as a separate out for sending to the PA or a separate amp.


    I am currently using the blended output but only switching on either magnetic OR piezo pickups not blended together. I have the KPA set up with rigs for electric and the Bert Meulendijk acoustic profiles for the piezo.


    I know the KPA can't do two independent amp rigs but has anyone figured out a way to get a great blended acoustic and electric sound?


    I am thinking of ways to use either the Parallel Path signal chain - but the KPA would still see a blended signal coming in so wouldn't know what to process as a Rig and what to send through the first two stomps only.


    Is it possible to use the two independent outputs on the guitar and send the electric to the main input but the piezo to the return of a loop which would be post the Stack module (say block X or mod)?

    I have a Gibson Les Paul Axcess Alex Lifeson, I run mine direct to the sound board, have also gone into an acoustic amp, or both at the same time. I use the Radial Tonebone PZ and it works great at giving a good signal at the board.
    You can have the sound guy blend your signals for the sound you want.

    Hi Drog


    Yes, that's pretty much what I was doing with my old amp and pedal board setup.


    I ran one output from guitar to my RJM Mastermind PBC which went through all my pedals etc and into the guitar amp.


    I ran the other output straight into a little Session Gordon Giltrap GC10 preamp and XLR out from there to the PA.


    I could mute or activate either signal at the touch of a button. Electric only, pieazo only or combined. I could still do that with the Kemper although it would mean having extra power to front of stage and a separate stand-alone pre amp pedal. It's not the end of the world but it would be REALLY cool to be able to do everything within the Kemper for convenience and total control.


    I know that the main input sockets are mono so clearly it wouldn't be possible to send both signals into the front input without Kemper redesigning the hardware. However, it should be possible to add this feature (if it doesn't already exist and I just haven't figured it out yet) in a firmware update like the parallel path feature.


    If you could use the Front input for Electric signals and the Alternative Input or Return Input on the rear for the Piezo signal, the two signal paths could remain completely independent until the main output.


    Electric would go through the Stack including the cabinet block but the alternative input would bypass all of this and probably enter the signal path just before the reverb. Alternatively, they could just add the ability to assign the rear inputs to the parallel signal path (for some effects) simultaneously with the front input going to the other side of the parallel path for the electric.


    I should probably add this to the feature request posts rather than here.

    Not exactly the same, but I run my acoustic/electric into the PA and have a Fishman Rare Earth humbucker that goes to my electric rig. It sounds excellent to me and really gives flexibility.


    I cut one of those rubber soundhole covers to fit with the pickup in place and prevent feedback.

    Thanks Finally.


    I agree it is a good solution and definitely workable. I do like the idea of being able to control everything from just the Kemper (including the ability to control both acoustic and electric in my own monitor). Also if I want to run direct to the PA but want to shape the sound a little with an acoustic pre amp then I would still need to use a stand alone pedal and/or DI box. Whereas, mixing it in the Kemper would just send one or 2 XLR cables to the desk with noting else on the stage.


    Maybe I'm trying to find a problem looking for a solution instead of the other way round ;)

    Quote from Wheresthedug

    has anyone figured out a way to get a great blended acoustic and electric sound?

    Yes. I have made a blended profile. I have a Hamer Duotone which I use to do a profile of piezo blended with magnetic pickups. The Duotone has both types of pickups and both are available on separate outputs.


    There are two key factors you need to keep in mind in order to get a good result. The process is pretty complicated. You will need a mic, a mixer, and a FRFR powered cab.


    Remember that you can use multiple streams of audio to make a profile as long as you have a mixer that can mix to a mono output.


    Usually, I connect the piezo output of my Duotone to my Fishman Aura preamp. However, if I want to really emphasize a more mic'd up acoustic sound, I connect to my Universal Audio Apollo. Then I load the Sound Machine Woodworks plugin. Woodworks is pretty amazing. The Aura has some nice models of acoustic guitars, but Woodworks is even better at making a piezo pickup sound like a totally acoustic guitar with a mic on it. It's not like the Aura sounds 'bad'. It just sounds more piezo and Woodworks sounds more acoustic. With either method, I connect the output to a channel on my Mackie mixer.


    I have two methods I use to get the sound from my guitar's magnetic pickups. For quick results I use a Radial JDV direct box which connects to another channel on the mixer. To fatten the signal up a bit, I occasionally connect the JDV to an Apollo mic input and load a Neve 1073 channel strip. I turn the compressor off, and set the EQ to flat, just using the gain to add a little to the signal.


    Or I sometimes connect my guitar to a Hi Z input on my Apollo and select a Unison amp sim plugin. If I do that, I set the plugin to a very clean output. The idea is to add a bit of tube amp feel, not to add drive.


    The trick is to keep the magnetic signal clean so it blends really well with the piezo signal.


    Whatever method I use to set up the mag pickups output, that stream goes to the Mackie on a second channel. The Mackie is connected to a Line 6 L2M FRFR powered speaker, set to flat. I mix the two channels to mono. I use a good condenser mic on the L2M, which is connected to the Kemper's input. Then I make the profile.


    A few notes are warranted here. I experiment a lot with the mag pickup stream's sound. In some cases, I like the neck pickup best. Sometimes, I like the neck and bridge pickups combined sound. I don't generally like to blend the bridge pickup by itself with the piezo sound, unless I dial the volume back a bit and turn the tone down.


    I also have experimented with using a tube guitar preamp on the mag pickup sound. When I do, I generally find that it is best to keep the gain down. But sometimes adding a bit of punch to the mag sound can create a magical result when blended with the piezo sound.


    I can get a nice blend of an acoustic and magnetic pickup sound using the above methods. But it important to note that there are some limitations to your tonal range when you do this. First of all, because you are blending the two sounds, if you add an effect to one, you are adding an effect to both. Second, you lose the nice stereo effect that you can get when you keep the two sounds on separate channels, with two amps. Third, if you keep the two sounds on separate channels, you can blend or play either separately at any point in a song.


    Note that you can also get some great blended profiles made with two tube amps for your mag pickups. You set up the same way you'd set up to make a Studio profile with a single amp and multiple mics on the cab. The difference is that you use a mixer and mics on each amp's cab, then mix the mics to mono to send a mono signal to the profiler. The Kemper only cares that it is getting a mono input to create its profile.


    I have made profiles by using a blend of the Mesa preamp and one side of the 20/20 and the AB763 clone and the other side of the 20/20. The 20/20 is actually two separate 20 watt EL84 amps. When I set up in stereo like this, I use exactly the same cabs on both sides and I use the same model mic on each cab. Each goes to a separate channel on the mixer, getting mixed to mono.


    The slight difference in tonal character and gain between the two preamps can make for a really awesome profile.