Discovered a Problem...

  • This is a 'feature' of high gain amps, i get it with my Krank. And after i've profiled it, it's there as well. I can also replicate it with other high gain profiles.


    I wonder if it's the pickup though.

  • This is a 'feature' of high gain amps, i get it with my Krank. And after i've profiled it, it's there as well. I can also replicate it with other high gain profiles.


    I wonder if it's the pickup though.


    Pickups and pickup height probably will help. I had a set of EMGs in my seven string and they were soo congested, I put in new pickups and lowered them a bit and there is much more clarity and less congestion...

  • Wow, thanks for the help and sound samples.
    Although your sample sounds better to me: It doesn't have that big volume difference and digitalness on the muted low notes. As I said I'm able to reproduce it with different pickups / guitars. Even with vintage single coils.


    r_u_sirius:
    Thanks for checking! Do you also get the same type of digitally low volume effect?

  • Wow, thanks for the help and sound samples.
    Although your sample sounds better to me: It doesn't have that big volume difference and digitalness on the muted low notes. As I said I'm able to reproduce it with different pickups / guitars. Even with vintage single coils.


    r_u_sirius:
    Thanks for checking! Do you also get the same type of digitally low volume effect?


    Yes I think my samples do sound better both with the kpa and real amp but on occasion you can hear that same effect with both, though not as extreme as your sound files for whatever reason. Obviously both with Kemper and real amp my guitar was not choking out as much as yours was in your sample, though even on the real amp with certain note an attack it exhibited that phenomenon, just not to the constant degree as your examples. I think we can conclude its a natural phenomenon, but I think we need to further look into why you are getting more chocked out then say me, can you once again describe your pickups and guitar used here?

  • For the sound sample I have used a Suhr SSH+ humbucker. Yes, it has a high output, but the levels were not clipping, and the pickup is quite low in my guitar. Same thing happens when I split it.
    I can get very similar results with another guitar equipped with Fender Fat 50 single coils. + lot of other guitar / pickup combinations.


    PS: still no response from support.

  • For the sound sample I have used a Suhr SSH+ humbucker. Yes, it has a high output, but the levels were not clipping, and the pickup is quite low in my guitar. Same thing happens when I split it.
    I can get very similar results with another guitar equipped with Fender Fat 50 single coils. + lot of other guitar / pickup combinations.


    PS: still no response from support.


    yeah your pickups should be fine then. My Gibson used here has extremely high output pickups as well. don't know why yours is choking out more then mine. high gain consideration and natural ocurance aside, def hope you get better results. For me I usually end up not using as much gain as I used to cause too much gain causes mush anywhere.

  • Did some more testing:
    It is 100% sure that it is not the pickups, and input settings. Well nothing is 100%, but ...


    I have also tried to reflash the firmware, and nothing changed.


    I have disabled the "stack" section, and the dry signal (even with effects on) appears to be fine with no noticeable artifacts. So I guess this means the problem is somewhat related to the amp emulation part inside my KPA. Really strange.


    Here is another sample (with my favourite Diezel high gain profile - thanks r.u.sirius :) where I let the high note ring a bit, then mute it with my fingers. Note the huge volume increase and the overall sound quality increase after the muting of the high note.


    http://snd.sc/JrW7wH


    ?(


  • Just tried to do the same thing and it is there too for me... ?( Try to play the two notes at the same time and the low E is quite compressed ... it is not present with clean sounds BTW .It is gain dependant but not totally as I got it on a profile even at 50% of gain and much less on another with 70% of gain..

  • for me this phenomenon is nothing new, real amps do it, too.
    That´s why strumming open position chords with a hi gain amp sounds bad (remember Smashing Pumpkins? :P ). the complexity of interval relationships always creates a more or less odd clash of frequencies. fifth intervals, i.e. powerchords, have a simple frequency relationship. that´s why they function well with distortion. play a high third with any heavy distorted amp and listen closely, what strange out of tune low notes appear.
    Add the compression you get with distortion and you have plenty of frequencies extremly amplified, fighting against each other.


    try this:
    -play a high sustained E und adiddionally a chugging muted rhythym on the low E string
    -then play a high sustained F und adiddionally a chugging muted rhythym on the low E string
    -compare the results, it´s octave against minor second


    PS:
    be sure to try all those things with a real amp, too!!!


  • yeah kinda my point earlier, I pretty much the same results with my KPA as with my amp, did the same thing with pretty much same amount. I don't think its a kpa issue. my cutoff on both weren't as dramatic either way though.

  • Thanks for the info sirius, very interesting. I have to admit I have very little experience with real :) high-gain tube amplifiers. The artifacts audible in my samples felt so digitally compressed to me, that I presumed it is a defect of the KPA.


    I have tried your suggestion, but I don't really hear a significant difference. Maybe my ears are tired for today :)
    Your "Diezel Her CH3 SM57" profile is absolutely fantastic! Thanks for that also.

  • A few folks in this thread are correct, so many of us in todays "guitar" world are used to perfect tones coming from digital interfaces/hardware or otherwise. - that this becomes the "norm" for standard amp conversation.


    Real amps in a room has many many advantages, but also very hard to control sometimes. - a lot of ghost notes, noise, hum, string vibration, even and odd harmonic clashing, and sometimes (Depending on the pull/push circitry) a lot of inverse phasing due to speaker movment. - add all these into a mess of distorted tones, and it can become unwanted. - Real amps have many more problems than its digital counterparts, natrually as they "perfect" the uglyness, and most do it well. - becasue real amps are very random, these things are very hard to emulate, and the KPA doesnt really profile its sag, or bias, or the push value from the tubes, it doesnt care if its ClassA or FET so it wont behave the same once profiled.


    Somethings however, it does still capture and thats harmonic destruction. - this is basically (and to me) what your hearing, where the harmonic transients fight for space (sort off)
    But anyway a long story short, but its OK, as this is how real amps are!. too much harmonic content at one freq band is going to clip and compress. - only real soloution is to lower the gain.

  • lol yeah ok hats off that didnt make sence :) (see last sentance below)


    CK, What I was trying to say was......this means it cant go deep in profiling (the flaws of an amp and its mistakes and charector) the KPA takes these and mixes them about a bit and irons out the flaws in the profile...is what I meant. this can sometimes be a negative, but majority a positive. - and of course a lot of what you also hear is speak breakup and compression that adds to the tone a lot too when playing full cranking volume!

    That above post was all wrote before moring coffee so dont expect it to make a ounce of sence!.. - I didnt and I wrote it!.. the words "huh" spring to mind :)
    But its ok now.. ive had coffee. and a bit of toast. so im ok! :)


    EDIT: I suppose another method of me explaining it better is, the KPA is great and accurate 98% of the time of what your profiling at that snapshot'ed point (is that a word), but it has no way of predicting a real amps chaerectristics once its profiled....meaning once profiled the KPA doesnt care if it was class A or a battery amp or whatever and act like a cranked version of it... thats more simpler : )