I am very unhappy with the results I've been getting, FWIW many others don't seem to be as picky as me.
I posted this: http://kemper-amps.com/forum/i…page=Thread&threadID=4680
Please note the difference in EQ curve between original signal and DI profiled. Sound clip provided as well. I observed a much more noticeable difference in "feel" and "punch" in the room with a poweramp plus cabinet (multiple versions of both tried).
CK seems to be addressing some of these issues in future updates by what I read. But as it stands today, I find it unusable. YMMV.
Yes I heard that all at once I stopped playing and so did my bandmates. I asked everyone including the public to be very quiet. Then I played some notes on the high E string and only at position 15 and 18 I could hear all this. Then I shouted 1,2,3,4 and we rocked on!!!!
Lol!!! Thanks...that made me laugh.
Very cool! Totally dig the song/clip...thanks for sharing!
May I ask how the KPA feels/sounds onstage compared to what you were using before?
And how were you monitoring?
Wow! Fascinating! I gotta try this! Thanks for sharing.
Thats a good point raised by Bill
Most speakers in cabs, produce a limited freq,, normally 80hz to 5000hz - DI would be Full range pretty much. - I wonder if the input to the KPA (return) is limited to a set freq band..
Agree. Something is going on...
I'm pretty sure this is on topic...I was also unhappy with DI "preamp only" profiling results. I even included EQ screen captures and audio clips for reference. I'm looking forward to a fix which I'm told is in the works.
I'm very sorry to hear.
I've enjoyed your contributions, info & opinions...you will be missed.
I hope things turn around and look up for you very soon.
Mine has been stable until I tried switching cabinets; all of a sudden it "popped" and had a weird ringing sound. A reboot made it go away.
Everything from 50 seater club to 10.000 people open air festivals. I had modeling solution for the smallest stuff and an H&K Triamp plus rack for the bigger ones. In the 80-90s I was hauling a rack stereo setup with 2 full stacks in stereo
Right on! I didn't realize the RCF NX 12 was so versatile...50-10,000 works for me. Apparently worth the expense then.
Man..that's some system you had back in the 80-90s! I sure don't envy having to lugg that stuff around tho...
If you get the chance try an RCF NX 12, my old QSC K10 sounds like a toy in comparison.
Yeah...I've been reading that in various forums...it sure is one hell of an expensive solution though.
I would HAVE to get it from somewhere I could return it if I didn't like it. Thanks for the input.
Out of curiosity, what are the smallest/largest gigs you've used it on? What amps were you using onstage before having that setup?
Yes, that is why many users are looking forward to that "total cab bypass". I talked to CK about this and he is taking this very serious and he is already investigating how to make this better.
I'm SOOOOOO looking forward to this. Thanks for sharing.
We should not forget that here we are stretching quite a bit the original purpose of the Profiling process, I've tried it with power amp and cab and was sounding like an amp...to me...but loosing all the flexibility and ease of being FRFR. I think that by now my ears are used to that paradigm and I would not go back hauling a 4x12 around even if somebody would do it for me (and it is not the case). But that is just me....
But each solution creates it's own new problem (which I'm trying to solve).
If I use the KPA as primarily an FRFR solution, I have a BIG compromise on the quality of stage monitoring which sounds nowhere near as nice as my real amps onstage. I've already gone through two FRFR monitors (A JBL EON G2 which sucked and an EV Sx250 which was better). But I see this route as a rabbit-hole of compromise, purchases and wasted money trying to find a workable solution.
If I use the KPA as a DI solution, the quality of my stage monitoring improves dramatically (and will be better once the speaker profile can be 100% removed from the monitor output) AND I get a great sound to the board. So even though it's "stretching" it's intended purpose it has potentially greater payoffs for me. YMMV.
I sure do hear ya on the lugging around the 4X12. But I gotta either lug around an FRFR stage monitor or a 2X12 cabinet anyway so the question for me is, "Which one inspires me onstage like my amps do?".
Yup it should. What's interesting is there's a distinct rolloff displaying in your graphs, and in fact for the refined one some of that is coming back but as you say that sounds worse.
What I recommend is increasing your refining time, and I dont' mean do small refines of a few chords here and there, i mean start refining then noodle away on it for as long as you want, just jam out and when you remember that you're still refining then go and stop. Ignore the advice about just loud chords, the more you give the KPA to work on the better. Sometimes I just play for half an hour or more before stopping refining, the result is always much better than short refining stages of "here's some chords" then stop to hear the difference, then "here's some more" etc.
I don't think that's how CK meant for the refining process to work or the manual would say "noodle around for 30 minutes". You shouldn't have to refine for a half hour to get great results. Such extensive refining isn't necessary when I use mic'd cab tones...and I'm totally happy with the results.
Crap. Just found out that while adding a cabinet after-the-fact sounds great going to the board, the cab still "colors" the direct sound (also an issue mentioned before) which screws up the direct-to-amp tone. (sigh)
BTW...played the "unrefined" DI profile back through the amp fx return. Feels/sounds MUCH better. Something about the refining process changes the original DI tone/feel too much IMO.
Adding Till's cabinets after-the-fact seems to work nicely as well (for recording).
I think I could live with this...but I'd definitely like to see the KPA refining process do as good a job matching the DI signal as it does on matching the mic'd signal.
Test #2 using the KPA as a DI solution, this time using a Reason Bambino Grande.
Configuration: Guitar-KPA Input-KPA Direct Output-Bambino Input-Bambino FX Send-KPA Return-KPA Master Outputs-Logic. Recorded directly into Logic. No post processing used.
Clips are as follows:
(1st clip) Post profile, reference amp
[Blocked Image: http://i239.photobucket.com/albums/ff194/chameleon101663/01Screenshot2012-04-23at104043AM.png]
(2nd clip) Post profile, pre-refine KPA
[Blocked Image: http://i239.photobucket.com/albums/ff194/chameleon101663/02Screenshot2012-04-23at104307AM.png]
(3rd clip) Post profile, post-refine KPA
[Blocked Image: http://i239.photobucket.com/albums/ff194/chameleon101663/03Screenshot2012-04-23at104346AM.png]
Notes: The pre-refined proflie feels/sounds much better than the post-refined profile...that should be opposite, no?
Thanks for your Post and some comments from me.
- The volume change after profiling is crucial.
The Profiler will automatically finetune the volume of the profile to unity gain, so it will fit well to all other profiles in terms of volume.
To have the best A/B comparison, the volume of the reference amp is adjusted by the same amount. This should not cause a problem.
The volume change has to happen at some point, so it's a good idea for the Profiler to perform it as early as possible, that's the profiling procedure.
- This is why recording 1 and 3 are obsolete, 2 and 4 is the real A/B comparison.
- Direct profiles are not as challenging as full profiles, thus many users achieve perfect results.
- The match eq pictures do not show what we heard in the clip, but the miked speaker, right?
Can you describe how you cabled the KPA and the Bogner?
Re: Volume change - Makes perfect sense!
Re: 1 and 3 obsolete - I agree on comment about #1. #3 is included to show the before-and-after profiling for comparison. #3 SHOULD sound better but does not (by a long shot) IMO. It seems to sound worse.
Re: Match EQ pictures - These charts show what was heard in the clip (the direct un-miked sound). Speakers were not used in this profile at all; the profiled sound was coming from amp's FX send.
Re: Describe cabling - Configuration: Guitar>KPA Input>KPA Direct Output>Shiva Input>Shiva FX Send>KPA Return>KPA Master Outputs>Logic. Recorded directly into Logic. No post processing used.
And in response to all the Shiva comments...I agree but that's not the point (which is why I'm testing a different amp today). The problems I've mentioned have happened with every amp I've tried to direct-profile so far.
BTW I found a better analyzer & will re-conduct the test with my Reason Bambino Grande.
Obviously I'm not in your room and hearing what you're hearing, but clips 3 & 4 sound like a successful DI Profile.
How does this all sound through your Bogners poweramp?
I'm listening on studio monitors...a pair of Event Studio Precision 8's. Through these monitors I hear a very noticeable difference IMO.
Playing back into the amp's return feels/sounds VERY different from the real thing as well. The lack of punch that I've mentioned in another thread is definitely there in addition to a more unpleasant eq curve. Not good.
I took some screen captures using Logic's "Match EQ" plugin...maybe this will help you visually see what I was hearing.
1st clip - pre profile reference amp
[Blocked Image: http://i239.photobucket.com/albums/ff194/chameleon101663/01Screenshot2012-04-22at102045PM.png]
2nd clip - post profile reference amp
[Blocked Image: http://i239.photobucket.com/albums/ff194/chameleon101663/02Screenshot2012-04-22at102111PM.png]
3rd clip - post profile pre refine KPA
[Blocked Image: http://i239.photobucket.com/albums/ff194/chameleon101663/03Screenshot2012-04-22at102140PM.png]
4th clip - post profile post refine KPA
[Blocked Image: http://i239.photobucket.com/albums/ff194/chameleon101663/04Screenshot2012-04-22at102208PM.png]
Can any audio engineers out there decipher these readings and explain if my ears are terrible or not?