Power amp kemper & Cabinet advice..... do not be afraid of the cab!

    Seems to be a LOT of questioning around here about Kemper w/poweramp & standard cab, vs, kemper direct to PA or FRFR cab.... I am a studio player only, but thought i'd offer up my advice. I have owned both Kempers powered & unpowered. I ran the unpowered kemper solely through a PA system, worked great.... I use my PA system as a sort of central sound system for all the devices in my studio, nearly like you would do with studio monitors... I have no doubts, that live, kemper direct to PA is awesome. That being said... I no longer play my kemper through my PA.... When I purchased the powered kemper I got a mesa 2x12 cab with V30's to compliment it... After all, what other reason do I need power for?? I mulled over getting an FRFR cab, but, I really just wanted my kemper to be like a real amp. You want it to sit on top of the half stack and look cool and look & feel like an amp should. I must say, I, personally am glad I did not go with an FRFR cab.... My mesa cab rocks, it looks cool, and it sounds awesome... Of course, I have it set so that cab sim is off going to the cab, but I also have a feed going to my PA where cab sim is on. If I want a truly powerful sound... I turn the volume up on the PA too and play through both...


    So bottom line, for what its worth... If you want a real cab and don't want to mess with all the FRFR stuff, and just want your kemper to be like a normal amp, do not be afraid! Go for it, you're missing nothing..... I dont think an FRFR cab is any better than a standard 2x12 or 4x12 cab, get what you like, dont get all caught up in what's "best". They are all good options.... Of course, you wont be using cab sim much if you buy a cab, but really... Did you really care to try 5000 different amps through 5000 different cabs ANYWAY? Get a GOOD cab with good speakers, and its more about the amp than the cab...


    Now... all I REALLY want, is a MATCHING cab with the kemper logo with V30's. I doubt this will ever happen though :(

    Edited once, last by MikeH ().

    Like 1

    Agree with you 1000%.


    In the two years I've had the Kemper I've played it through dozens of different studio monitors and powered speakers/PAs...and as we all know it sounds great.
    BUT, when I received my first Poweramp Kempers and plugged them into a real guitar cab, it was unbelievable...I'd go as far as to say that certain clean amp Profiles sound better than real clean tube amps...yep, it's true.
    I've done a few upgrades for clients/music stores that have owned the non powered Kempers since Feb 2012, and they loved them, but when they received their Poweramp versions they were completely dumbfounded.
    Believe it or not, I have clients (full time pro guitarists) who are micing their cabinets instead of using the KPA Main Outs to the PA...and these are guys that have been playing tube amps mic'd to the PA for decades.


    Now please, don't all go rush off and order Poweramp versions, you'll increase the back order time, and I've been waiting PATIENTLY for a long time for my new orders to arrive. :D

    I can also attest to the fact that the powered version through a guitar cab sounds fantastic. This was one area I had been worried about because there wasn't a lot of information out at the time of my purchase. I plan on using a mixture of guitar cab and PA because they both sound fantastic. I can actually say that my 4x12 cab sounds just as good, if not better than my previous tube amp setup.

    Funny, for me it´s completely the other way round.


    I have a bunch of very nice guitar cabs (most of you know them) but in my studio i don´t use them any more exect for profiling. Once i figured out how to eq the active monitors i really loved the sound because it´s so direct, 3 dimensional and it sounds fuller a lower volumes.


    Anyway, both methods work great...

    ^ ^ This.
    It's a matter of tastes of course, and if a number of profiles sound great or even better to the player's ears through a guitar cab (but you have to choose the cab, as usual) that's good! But I'd not agree with the OP that you miss nothing.
    Unless I hear it by myself, no-one will convince me that (each of the) profiles are more faithfully reproduced through a guitar cab. This is physically impossible. The player liking it more through a guitar cab is a different story.


    I believe that one of the problems here is that many people consider "FRFR" as an homogeneous category where all things are supposed to sound the same. So we end up buying bad (and cheap) "FRFR" device and we're unsatisfied, blaming the FRFR concept itself.
    Those who have experienced something on this line should expose themselves to a great player playing a great profile through a couple of CLRs at a loud volume. Just to realize where the state of the art is currently placed. :thumbup:


    :)

    I would agree that the frfr route definitely gives you different sounds with each profile and probably better represents each particular profile. For me personally, I had a particular sound that I was after for the band I've played in for years and part of that sound was due to my speakers that I own. For that application I won't be switching profiles very often. As far as hearing all the nuences of each profile and utilizing different sounds, I think frfr is fantastic. But I also love a signature tone that can be created with my guitar cab. To each his own. I think the kemper is a win-win solution and it depends on each individuals set up and goals.

    I think there are two groups of people here....


    Group A
    There are those, that refuse to "give in", until they are satisfied that the kemper, sounds EXACTLY like the profiled amp & cab, and they will stop at NOTHING until this is proved and achieved. After all, that's what this thing DOES right? This is the group that should definitely get an FRFR cab.


    Group B
    There are those, that recognize that "whatever" it does, we like it! We dont spend a lot of time comparing one profile to another or looking for videos of sound comparisons worrying if "cab sim" can "really" be accuratly removed from a profile, or if the "low end" of the sound signature is missing in the low EQ range etc..... We find our sounds, love them and use them. This group, might want to consider a real cab!


    Then there people who are both A & B depending on the day (which is me).... for you, who cant make up your mind, just go with what looks coolest :)

    Quote from MikeH

    ... get what you like, dont get all caught up in what's "best". They are all good options...


    As further evidence of this philosophy, I have the non-powered KPA toaster but I run it into the effects return of my Mesa Boogie 5:50 2x12 with the cab sims on. I've found cab sims that work in this configuration extremely well, and the cab sim DEPs give me extra tone control.


    So I guess this makes me a "B"! :D

    Quote from tylerhb

    Funny, for me it´s completely the other way round.


    I have a bunch of very nice guitar cabs (most of you know them) but in my studio i don´t use them any more exect for profiling. Once i figured out how to eq the active monitors i really loved the sound because it´s so direct, 3 dimensional and it sounds fuller a lower volumes.


    Anyway, both methods work great...


    I agree with your method as well.
    But, the key to your method is EQ'ing the active monitors with a 32 band EQ, because every 'active monitor' that's supposedly "FRFR" is actually not, they all sound very different.
    You're doing a test to determine the EQ failure of your particular active monitors and then correcting with the 32 band EQ....excellent idea...you're not 'correcting' the Kemper, you're correcting your particular active monitor.
    I remember many years ago on the old Line 6 forum we used to use a Behringer PEQ/DEQ (?), and then saved different EQ settings for different Pod patches....worked great...of course that was because the Pods sounded like sh*te without the EQ.


    But, here's the problem.
    Try explaining what you're doing to the average guitarist who's always in a rush and has no patience, he wants to hear 'magic' instantly...if I can't produce instant magic for him then I lose him, I might only get one shot to convince him.
    Also, take into account I must convince the guy that he must first buy a KPA, then spend a bundle of cash on an active monitor, then determine it's EQ failures, then buy a new rack EQ to correct the failures...by that time he's run away. :)


    That's where the Kemper Poweramp and cab is so cool for me as a salesman, whatever guitar cab the customer happens to own he can use with the Poweramp, one cable, plug and play.
    But of course there is a downside, the speakers will colour every Profile whether it's a VOX or a Mesa.
    However, I find when the guitarist first hears the Poweramp/Cab, he instantly hears his "Live" on stage tone, it sounds like his tube amp he's been gigging with for years.
    He's not so worried that he might not be able to get 100% authentic VOX or Blackface Fender tone because of the V30s in his cab...what convinces him is the fact that he has a real guitar cabinet behind him on stage that sounds great with the 3 or 5 Profiles he plans to use live.


    Keep in mind I'm talking about guitarists that have yet to try out the digital world of 'Live' tone, they're still tube amp and pedalboard junkies.

    I don't own a powered KPA yet. My Atomic CLR arrived yesterday. I do not believe I am Group A yet. I wish I was, but Amps & cabs are still sitting with me.
    Where can I find more info on EQ'ing FRFR monitors?


    The "PowerKemper on a cab" way has its own sexiness though ...

    90% of the game is half-mental.


    Of course you´re right. But i think my situation is special cause my old JBL EONs are so far from sounding flat that using that EQ was the only way for me to get the sound right. Newer stuff like the DXRs and CLRs probabaly work out of the box. Maybe i´ll get some DXR12s for a longer testing period within the next weeks so i can make some comparisons. Considering the price it would be awesome it this one works out of the box.


    For you as a salesman, i would consider to simply setting up both kinds of systems for the same KPA in my showroom. Simply switching between those 2 possibilities has even more of the "wow" factor :) . I once setup my two active monitors with full stereo effects left and right of the room and put the 4 x 12 cab with a dry sound in the middle of the opposite side of the room for a nice "triangle of sound". Really awesome :thumbup:

    Quote from bigHF

    I don't own a powered KPA yet. My Atomic CLR arrived yesterday. I do not believe I am Group A yet. I wish I was, but Amps & cabs are still sitting with me.
    Where can I find more info on EQ'ing FRFR monitors?


    The "PowerKemper on a cab" way has its own sexiness though ...


    Damn, i´d love to check out the CLR. I think we finally need to get together as planned... :P