The Active FRFR vs Passive FRFR vs Guitar Cabinet Question

    I am presently using a Kemper Profiler PowerHead with my 1x12 Earcandy Sovereign (front ported) cabinet containing a Scholz Sugarcone (the original). While the sounds I am making sound fantastic (with either cab off or cab on), I know I am not hearing the true representation of the cabs in the profiles. A little research in this forum and others has me thinking of going the Active CLR route (reasoning being that the active monitor's power section is tuned to the specific monitor as opposed to having a separate power amp driving a passive monitor and the two not necessarily being optimally tuned together).


    But the question I still have is this: if I absolutely love the sound of say a 4x12 Marshall 1960A cab with V30's and EVM12L's in a criss-cross pattern, would opting for this solution work in all or most situations? In other words, do certain amps sound significantly better matched with certain cabs? Or am I likely to prefer my favorite cab with any amp profile I might choose now or in the future?

    It depends how you plan to use your Kemper.


    When you do a live gig how many tones do you need?
    I know guys who are gigging (Poweramp and cab) with one or two Profiles, clean, classic rock crunch, hi gain and lead tone, all coming from one or two Profiles.
    Two or three gigs later they feel like a new flavour, they setup a different two or three Profiles, same thing, at different levels of gain...sometimes through the same cab or sometimes through one of their other cabs.
    They're not concentrating or thinking about whether the cab is 'tuned' to particular Profiles/Amps, they don't care...if it sounds good they're happy...and as you've experienced, the Poweramp into a Cab at LOUD volume sounds incredible.


    I know what you mean, how will the VOX or Fender Profiles sound going into a cab with two V30s?
    Well, how will the same VOX Profiles sound with my humbucker guitar VS your single coil guitar, or your single coils VS my single coils, through my FRFR VS your FRFR, etc, etc?
    The different combinations are endless.
    I don't mind the flavour that a particular guitar speaker adds to the Kemper Profiles, if it sounds and feels good then that's all that really matters...IMO.

    Hi elvis, welcome here :thumbup:


    I think the answer is completely subjective. Let's put some still point down.


    The CLR is a great cab, but the optimized match with the power amp is just one of the reasons. Passive version is great as well.


    Are you aware that, by choosing a guitar cab, you're giving up a digital device's versatility? All the nuances of an amp and a cab interacting in front of that mic are already been captured by the profiling process; you just need a transparent medium to take those nuances to the listeners' ears. A guitar cab will inevitably bring its personality to the whole sound, more or less the way it happens when you use several guitar amps with the same guitar cab.
    This might be a good choice as long as you love that cab's sonic signature and want to hear it with every amp you're going to use.


    This having been said, since guitar amps and cabs are not linear at all, each possible coupling has got a sonic personality on its own. It's usually said that a "dark" amp fits well a more "open" cab (and vice-versa) because the sound you get is more balanced, but in the end it all boils down to personal taste.
    It's hard to say what you'd like most, just because not necessarily a more balanced sound is your cup of tea.


    As for me, I for example found I like certain amps+cabs combinations better depending on the guitar I use.


    OTOH, if there's a cab you really love, be content with it: you'll certainly end up using some specific amps more than other with it, and it will be "your" sonic signature. Versatility doesn't mean anything in itself, if you don't find your sound gorgeous! It's like having a guitar with 25 PUs combinations, and ending up using just three because most of them are unusable.


    But, if you're afraid that an FRFR solution won't be sexy enough for you, rest assured that with the CLRs great profiles will sound gorgeous, and you won't be regretting a real cab in the least.


    :)

    Hey, thanks for the quick replies. Yes, I do realize that what sounds good to each of us is a subjective thing. I suppose what I'm really after is what's optimum. In other words, I wouldn't want to compromise those sparkling Vox or Fender cleans with a cab that's just not equipped to deliver them. No matter how much I like that cab when paired with a Marshall. That example really pinpoints the problem with a one-cab-fits-all solution I think. Especially in a studio situation where you might want to achieve a particular sound for a particular track. I don't have a lot of experience playing a variety of amps thru the same cab configuration so I guess I was looking for some real world examples of where that might not give me exactly what I was expecting and the Vox/Fender examples really nail it I think.


    In my own case I am looking to explore the very best of what each of the amps has to offer with the objective of collecting a set of tones that can be used for particular situations rather than just accepting anything that sounds good to my ears when paired with my cab. So I think I just answered my own question! lol. Active CLR. However I fully understand the position of those players who aren't interested in endless tweaking but just want to lock down a great clean, crunch and lead tone for use on stage.

    Then, yes, a CLR will be your best bet.
    I don't own a CLR, but from what I've read it's the best of the best.
    Considering you already have a Class D Bang & Olufsen poweramp in your Kemper, you could go 'passive' CLR.

    Well, yes, that was my first thought. But apparently the optimum situation is to have the power amp specifically designed for the monitor. At least that is the opinion of some. Perhaps someone could speak as to how much of a difference there really is between the active and passive CLR when used with the Kemper. That would be most helpful. Haven't seen any shootout videos for that.

    Quote from elvisscottyandbill

    Well, yes, that was my first thought. But apparently the optimum situation is to have the power amp specifically designed for the monitor. At least that is the opinion of some. Perhaps someone could speak as to how much of a difference there really is between the active and passive CLR when used with the Kemper. That would be most helpful. Haven't seen any shootout videos for that.


    The poweramp of the active CLR is optimized for its cab.
    It has been stated by Mr. Jay Mitchell (IIRC) that this is an advantage that cannot be easily compensated for.
    So I'd say: when CLR, go active.

    Another advantage of FRFR vs. cabs is that monitors tend to be less beamy/directional in the treble than cabs. If you're used to the beam of a cab being aimed at the backs of your knees, it may be an adjustment to finally have your actual tone directed straight at your face, but I think it's a good thing when the performer hears what the audience is hearing.

    I have to agree with Ben , having the tone the audience is hearing in your ear, mixed with the band is magical. I love my CLR, I play in a cover band that plays many styles and I love being able to reproduce a closed back 4x12 with a Marshall or Diezel and then have a 2x12 Vox or a 4x10 Fender sound . Don't forget if you're playing live there are other less expensive powered cabs, like the Yamaha DXR10, that will do an excelent job.

    Quote from elvisscottyandbill

    So I think I just answered my own question! lol. Active CLR.

    And I think you're right here :D

    Quote from elvisscottyandbill

    However I fully understand the position of those players who aren't interested in endless tweaking but just want to lock down a great clean, crunch and lead tone for use on stage.

    Do not put "endless tweaking" in the same ball park as "trying all the best sounds and amps", the CLRs will need no tweaks for giving you back exactly what you put in :D

    Quote from elvisscottyandbill

    apparently the optimum situation is to have the power amp specifically designed for the monitor. At least that is the opinion of some.

    This. And also consider that the DSP is present in the active version only. Furthermore, IIC the active ones weight just one pound more than the passive ones.

    Quote from burningyen

    Another advantage of FRFR vs. cabs is that monitors tend to be less beamy/directional in the treble than cabs.

    ... And, among the so called FRFR, the CLRS are special under this respect :)

    This seems like a good place for this question, so:


    Looks like I'm picking up one of the XiTone passive wedges for my darling KPA, and I'm interested in fiddling around with a wet/dry/wet setup - this would be almost exclusively for home use, since I haven't gigged in years, and I probably wouldn't want to inflict wet/dry/wet on a sound guy I didn't already know.


    1. Is W/D/W as fun as it's cracked up to be?
    2. Would I be correct in thinking that the two wet speakers can be relatively tiny, since I don't (presumably) care much about bass response from them?
    3. This is really just a fun experiment, so if I budgeted $300 US for the pair, at most, what would be a decent set of speakers to look at?

    Quote from elvisscottyandbill

    Perhaps someone could speak as to how much of a difference there really is between the active and passive CLR when used with the Kemper. That would be most helpful. Haven't seen any shootout videos for that.

    If someone has an active CLR, a passive CLR and a Kemper B & O Poweramp, then they could do that test.
    But I doubt anyone has all 3, it would be an interesting A/B shootout.

    Quote from Lokasenna

    1. Is W/D/W as fun as it's cracked up to be?


    Hmm, for home use I personally don't think so.


    Quote from Lokasenna

    2. Would I be correct in thinking that the two wet speakers can be relatively tiny, since I don't (presumably) care much about bass response from them?


    Not necessarily. Wet sounds can also be very bass heavy.


    Quote from Lokasenna

    3. This is really just a fun experiment, so if I budgeted $300 US for the pair, at most, what would be a decent set of speakers to look at?


    I think the sonic quality of a 'pure wet' speaker can be allowed to be more in the budget area, so there should be quite a few in question. I can't comment further though.