Spring reverb, again, again, again.....

    Gave up on this post; the quotations just wouldn't work properly.


    Suffice it to say that spring 'verb has a character all its own, and apart from the obvious amp-emulation authentici-titty argument, sometimes it's just the ticket to help impart a unique character to a guitar sound in the mix.


    Oh, and jzucker, I'm frankly amazed that you said that the KPA's FX "sound like a toy". I'm at a loss for words when it comes to responding to the claim. Have you tried them all?

    Quote from Monkey_Man

    I'm frankly amazed that you said that the KPA's FX "sound like a toy". I'm at a loss for words when it comes to responding to the claim.


    Ditto. The Kemper fx sound great when dialed in properly especially the univibe and tremolo which I see some ppl complaining about.
    This company created the Access Virus, one of the best Synths on the market (when it came out atleast. I dont follow that scene much anymore), so this ain't their first rodeo and I have a hard time seeing how they would program mediocre fx into the unit. I agree tho that some FX can have a bit more options/flexibility etc..



    As for spring reverb @ckemper has stated a while back that Spring Reverb was 2nd on the list of "big things", and that was before Pure Cab.
    I would assume it is 1st on the list now and hence possibly coming in the next big firmware update.


    Would be awesome if someone from the dev team atleast confirms that fact.. I don't see why you are still keeping people guessing when a simple heads up would reassure a lot of people.

    Quote from Monkey_Man

    It could be that time-based projections are difficult and that to say they're "working on it" is the most sensible approach.


    True, but a 'still working on it.....' would do no harm whatsoever in my opinion. Lots of folks would like extra delays, lots would like extra reverbs (including Spring) and lots would like the ability to put these things before or after the amp stack and be able to tweak multiple parameters using an expression pedal. And an editor of course :)


    i completely get when Kemper do not say 'what is coming' when it's something innovative (such as PureCab). I do not get why they will not say that these things are coming 'soon' because none of them is an innovation vs the competition. I have every hope that Kemper will 'do it better' because they always do, but if they officially said 'we're still working on these delays and reverbs and they'll be great' it'd throw everyone a bone and no other manufacturer has anything to steal because they all do a version of these things a long time ago. Win / win in my opinion. :)

    Quote from Gary_W

    True, but a 'still working on it.....' would do no harm whatsoever in my opinion.Lots of folks would like extra delays, lots would like extra reverbs (including Spring) and lots would like the ability to put these things before or after the amp stack and be able to tweak multiple parameters using an expression pedal. And an editor of course :)


    i completely get when Kemper do not say 'what is coming' when it's something innovative (such as PureCab). I do not get why they will not say that these things are coming 'soon' because none of them is an innovation vs the competition. I have every hope that Kemper will 'do it better' because they always do, but if they officially said 'we're still working on these delays and reverbs and they'll be great' it'd throw everyone a bone and no other manufacturer has anything to steal because they all do a version of these things a long time ago. Win / win in my opinion. :)


    They are countable :)

    Quote from Monkey_Man

    It could be that time-based projections are difficult and that to say they're "working on it" is the most sensible approach.


    Totally agree with you there. Giving a time and date would only add mounting pressure on development and might set up the community for a dissappointment.
    However, I think it would be nice for the community to have some sort of "roadmap" on whats coming, even if they have to be a bit discreet about it.

    Quote from DamianGreda


    Are you sure? :)


    Someone official saying 'new reverbs and delays are coming and you'll be blown away' isn't telling anyone anything about innovation. I don't doubt they'll do something that we're not expecting (either fx we haven't even dreamed about or doing the 'traditional favourites' to a level that exceeds expectations).... Doing the extras / exceeding expectations is in the company DNA. However, giving everyone some official reassurance on a general 'it's coming soon' would be welcome, keep everyone warm this Winter and do no harm. IMO anyway :)

    Quote from Monkey_Man

    Gave up on this post; the quotations just wouldn't work properly.


    Suffice it to say that spring 'verb has a character all its own, and apart from the obvious amp-emulation authentici-titty argument, sometimes it's just the ticket to help impart a unique character to a guitar sound in the mix.


    Oh, and jzucker, I'm frankly amazed that you said that the KPA's FX "sound like a toy". I'm at a loss for words when it comes to responding to the claim. Have you tried them all?


    Yes, I shouldn't have said they sound like a toy. That was unfair and untrue. But I will say that none of them work like the original pedals in terms of gain structure. For example , the vintage fuzz and TS9 both sound good for high gain but for lower gain, they don't work without adding additional effects in front that have negative gain. This just reinforces in my mind along with the lack of spring reverb that the kemper caters to the metal and crunch and 7 stringer crowd. Nothing wrong with that but it's not the demographic that interests me for what I do. I realize i'm in the extreme minority. My choice is to go back to tube amps which I don't want to do or (most likely) switch over to axefx. I'm planning on getting an AX8. I'm on the waiting list. Maybe i'll be disappointed and come back but based on having owned an axefx, I can say that the effects blow away kemper effects. The kemper was superior to the axefx I in terms of amps but I think axe has completely caught up if not surpassed kemper with AXE II and if the AX8 sounds like an AXE II, I'm switching.

    With the premise that what sounds good to anyone is good to them, I wonder how anything could sound better than something that sounds like the profiled amp... It can sound different, but the goal of the Profiler is to sound like your amp. The rest is a matter of tastes.


    :)

    Viabcroce wrote:
    With the premise that what sounds good to anyone is good to them, I wonder how anything could sound better than something that sounds like the profiled amp... It can sound different, but the goal of the Profiler is to sound like your amp. The rest is a matter of tastes.


    Agreed Gianfranco; It's an invalid argument.


    Jzucker, thank you for that more-considered response; I appreciate it mate.


    The Kemper team is aware of the fact that some users find the disparity in labelling of parameters between the KPA and real stomps frustrating. I'm sure it's given it much thought; we'll have to see which way it goes. I do get the feeling 'though that consistency of approach / paradigm / labelling is important to it, which explains what we've seen thus far.


    Seriously 'though, stepping back from this a little, it's hardly a weighty issue, is it? I mean, and perhaps I'm biased as an audio engineer, but accepting and adapting to / interpreting the interfaces of various devices is part and parcel of using technology to make music. Even if, in this case, pedals aren't reflected verbatim, a standard is nevertheless still apparent, in this case... Kemper's standard, which is more-or-less a universal, logical standard. Hardly worth losing sleep or indeed switching products over, IMHO.


    Still, if the quality of the FAS FX poses such a huge drawcard for you, who'm I to question your decision? The only thing I'd say is that when recording, the quality of the amp and cab's combined tone is what counts and nothing more. Anything any guitar-processing box can do can be done in the studio, and almost always more discreetly and with greater control and fidelity. In light of this, I'd say "choose wisely" or "for live use only".


    Good luck, mate.


    Quote from Gary_W

    True, but a 'still working on it.....' would do no harm whatsoever in my opinion. Lots of folks would like extra delays, lots would like extra reverbs (including Spring) and lots would like the ability to put these things before or after the amp stack and be able to tweak multiple parameters using an expression pedal. And an editor of course :)


    i completely get when Kemper do not say 'what is coming' when it's something innovative (such as PureCab). I do not get why they will not say that these things are coming 'soon' because none of them is an innovation vs the competition. I have every hope that Kemper will 'do it better' because they always do, but if they officially said 'we're still working on these delays and reverbs and they'll be great' it'd throw everyone a bone and no other manufacturer has anything to steal because they all do a version of these things a long time ago. Win / win in my opinion. :)


    IMHO, there's no point in saying "we're still working on it":


    1) We're told they're working on it.
    2) If we're told nothing else, surely we can assume they're still working on it.
    3) Even once finished, there's still no point in telling us 'cause it'd appear in the next update and the K-Team, IMHO, has the right to try to surprise us by not spilling all (they may spill some here and there) the beans prior to release.


    The mentality of expecting periodic reassurances of this nature reminds me of the kid on the back seat of a car's asking, "Daddy, are we there yet?" over and over again. These guys are pros, and IMHO they're treating us as such. I don't feel hard done by 'cause I know that any inside information I might have will have zero influence / effect on the nature and timing of software or hardware updates. You either trust that the K-Team is doing its best or you don't. You either trust that the team takes our concerns onboard or you don't. I for one believe the former in both cases, and humbly accept that my being kept in the loop, so to speak, would be of absolutely no benefit to anyone save for satiating my own eagerness / impatience, which in and of itself is, to me at least, an expression of my own immaturititty, just like that wardrobe malfunction.


    Sorry for the rant. S'pose what I'm saying is that I'm happy to accept the Kemper way. If you guys want to try to get them to alter their modus operandi somewhat, I wish you luck and success, but I'm not convinced the efforts will justify the rewards.

    Quote from viabcroce

    With the premise that what sounds good to anyone is good to them, I wonder how anything could sound better than something that sounds like the profiled amp... It can sound different, but the goal of the Profiler is to sound like your amp. The rest is a matter of tastes.


    :)


    because in some cases like the fender amp amps with reverb or true pitch vibrato, the effects are as important as the amp. And frankly, I don't care if it absolutely nails one particular sound off one particular clapton record. I'm more interested if the entire package inspires me and the kemper does do that but the time based effects are just not very good IMO.

    Edited once, last by jzucker ().

    Quote from Monkey_Man

    The mentality of expecting periodic reassurances of this nature reminds me of the kid on the back seat of a car's asking, "Daddy, are we there yet?" over and over again..


    Harsh. Kemper have mentioned a vague 'we're working on it' and that was the first (and last) word on the subject some time ago. I have hardly been on here on a daily basis asking for updates. I've asked a reasonable question regarding a subject close to a lot of people's hearts a couple of times in between participating in other threads here. This is a feature request on a feature request thread. Telling me I have a childlike mentality for asking 'any news?' on the very thread that is set up to discuss this feature isn't cool and is adding nothing.

    Quote from jzucker

    because in some cases like the fender amp amps with reverb or true pitch vibrato, the effects are as important as the amp. And frankly, I don't care if it absolutely nails one particular sound off one particular clapton record. I'm more interested if the entire package inspires me and the kemper does do that but the time based effects are just not very good IMO.


    Oh, you mean the whole rig... Got it:)


    Again, if it sounds good it's good!

    Quote from Gary_W

    Harsh. Kemper have mentioned a vague 'we're working on it' and that was the first (and last) word on the subject some time ago. I have hardly been on here on a daily basis asking for updates. I've asked a reasonable question regarding a subject close to a lot of people's hearts a couple of times in between participating in other threads here. This is a feature request on a feature request thread. Telling me I have a childlike mentality for asking 'any news?' on the very thread that is set up to discuss this feature isn't cool and is adding nothing.


    Oh, I agree that this would seem harsh... if that's what I meant, Gary. Mate, you've misunderstood me. I'm not a snob; quite the opposite, in fact. Here goes:


    Collectively, the board has asked the "are we there yet" question incessantly. The Kemper team is the parent in the front seat, and the children repeatedly firing the question are... us. Not you, us.


    I would not only have to be insensitive but also Blind Freddy to suppose that you've been pushing this barrow with any sort of regularity, Gary. In fact, I can't think of any other instance of your asking this, and even if you had, you're hardly worthy of being labelled a pesky kid, mate!


    The fact is that quotes in most threads were not working for me last night. That very post, you may have noticed, started out with my manually quoting Gianfranco. In other threads I gave up on quoting altogether. The page where Skoczy posted his HTML version of the latest factory-rig list took 25 minutes to load, which I mentioned in said thread. In the case of your quote, I settled on a large block when the original intention was to split it up and respond only to parts of it. After repeated attempts, I unfortunately had to settle for the crude, inaccurately-corellated version of the post in terms of my references to all that was "block-quoted".


    The aspect of the quote you felt I judged you upon was in fact employed only to serve as a reminder to all here that we've literally flooded the place with the question as to when the 'verb will arrive. I felt awkward about this, but hoped that I wouldn't be misunderstood. I mean, if one assumes the best of folks, much angst and gnashing of teeth can be averted, no?


    Seriously mate, I'm sorry that you seem to have felt bad / hurt / offended or whatever judging by your response, and I might just have been tempted to take it personally myself had I been in your shoes. You weren't to know of the challenges I was experiencing in manufacturing even the simplest of posts.


    Oh, and I tried also to quote your follow-up post about there being nothing to lose and that it could be a win / win situation if the team updated us. The board kept part-erasing and merging additional quotes into one, which is why I ended up with that one block only after (a third or fourth attempt) at a re-write. The point being here that I agree with you; there'd be nothing to lose if Kemper did this. Unfortunately amidst all the confusion I neglected to mention this (not surprising as I didn't have the quote there to remind me), which is significant since it was meant to precede my parting statement about the fact that we can't change Kemper's modus operandi. So you see, I agree, but in short, I feel that "nagging" them, as we do as a collective, is unlikely to achieve anything.


    FWIMBW, I had to do my first reboot in 4 months about an hour later. It'd take too long to describe all the bizarre anomalies I experienced here, on GearSlutz and at MOTUNation, but suffice it to say it was inexplicable and far beyond anything I'd seen on any Mac I've ever had (a long time).


    Tempted to write more, but I think you get the idea, Gary. Please accept my humble apology for my failure to effectively communicate; in retrospect I'd have been better off solving the Mac issues on my end before tackling the forum. It was a case of only realising the gravity of the situation as I ventured deeper into the land of posting. You may have noticed that I've been away ill for 5 weeks too, so my enthusiasm for catching up with my fellow Kemperites was surely overblown and a major factor in ensuring I "posted first and worried about weird fonts / colours / behaviour later"... to your detriment and possibly others too, sadly.


    Mereckons that's about the limit of my ability to issue an expansive apology, Gary, thankfully for any who may have read this! Last time:


    Sorry for the misunderstanding, Gary. It's not my place to make personal judgements of others, so please rest assured that this was not done with regard to you. All the best, mate.

    No apology needed whatsoever and please accept my apology for the painfully slow response!


    I appreciate you taking the time to write this and I'm sorry not to have been swifter at replying. Not good form on my part.


    I'm excited to see the 'Kemper video on Youtube' regarding the little light fade thing on the footswitch which leads one and all to believe that something is coming. I am, of course, hopeful that the 'something' will mean that 'Spring is in the air' but whatever it is, it's certain to be pretty cool because that's a common theme with the updates we get when they arrive :)

    I think the point is that this is a feature request group. If it bothers you that folks repeatedly ask for a feature, DON'T EFFIN' READ IT.


    Whining about folks whining is such a strawman IMO.


    And I've owned the kemper for about 2 years, during which the entire time I've heard from the rumor mill that "they are working on it" but have yet to read a single reliable/informed posting indicating that they actually are. I'm at the point where I'm probably going to switch over to the AX8 when it comes available because the axefx effects are so much better and if kemper were proactive to publish even approximate dates for features, this type of jumping ship could be avoided.