Is switching slots in performance mode too slow?

Thanks Sam

I also spent a bit of time just playing through some of the covers we do to see how I use the foot switch in live use.

If you take the song "Kryptonite" by Three Doors Down as an example, what I found was that I tend to switch patches between strums. Since my strums are much longer than 200mSec, there is no discernible delay in the performance. I also have another guitar player in the band, so unless I switch patches really badly, I have cover from the other guitar player to keep any dead space covered up on my end. If I were the only guitar player things would have to be much more precise I imagine

Data is always good to have.

I agree that it sucks, and I'd love a better response time, but keep in mind that even 450ms is still pretty short. My math says it's only a sixty-fourth note if you're playing at the glacial pace of 120bpm, and even shorter if you get into anything uptempo.

The problem isn't silence, it's delayed response.
I've yet to test it and i should, but it's about a quarter of a second - and that's a lot.

While it's obviously possible to 'train' yourself to switch at the right moment, it detracts from the live flow - if i'm switching into a heavy section, i'd like to stomp on the switch when i'm digging in - not think about the fact that i need to intentionally stomp prematurely.
I've never experienced switching times that were this bad, but i've never had a digital rig live before either.

Quote from Behind

BUT the 3rd time I did the same, I got a delay of 450 ms

I don't know how fast you are changing rigs, but there is a mechanism that prevents an cpu overload when you dialing through the rig list with autoload. If too many changes in a row are happening, the loading of the next rig is delayed by approx. 450ms. You might have triggered this behaviour in your test.

This is nothing that disturbs in a musical context, but you might experience it when you try to do automated tests/measurements or something.

Quote from Behind

Thank you for the info!

I made the test myself by pressing left and right soft buttons of the "arrow" to change between performances. The results are quite strange...

Here is the audio: https://mega.co.nz/#!DFIUnaqJ!p6_lnGzKghZaaILRUUJKfl8xWZ9xYEYqmrGbkItH6ms

What you hear is me changing from slot 3 to 4 and then 4 to 3 repeatedly. Performance 3 is KM-COSMOGENESIS and Performance 4 is the same profile but with a Hyper Chorus loaded. So I changed between the same profile to see if the delay time improved but it didn't help at all.

The first and second times I changed from 3 to 4 I got an approx delay of 250 ms BUT the 3rd time I did the same, I got a delay of 450 ms ( ). So the delay is not consistent after all, which makes things even worse. I mean, if I know that I have to measure half a beat to land correctly in the next bar... How can I do it if the delay I am getting is not consistent?

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Interesting.

I never got anything above 200mSec and never anything as extreme as 450mSec.

What version of firmware are you using? How many rigs do you have in your library? What are you using for a footswitch and what version of firmware is in your footswitch?

I think that 450mSec would bother me quite a bit! 200mSec is just "OK".

I measured the time from the middle peak of the "click" of the foot switch to the point where the next patch visibly picked up. The latter was easy to pick up on since there was a very small blank spot right before it of 10mSec.

I could hear your switch times in the recording and it sounded like a long time to me too.

Hey Timo,

As I mentioned elsewhere, when I switch rig from the front panel and press Load (Autoload is unengaged) it sometimes (and apparently randomly) takes seconds to perform the actual switching in Browser mode. No fast switching attempted or involved, just a plain rig switching after minutes of using a different rig.
Last official FW loaded.

NB: AFAICR, this used to randomly happen with other FW versions as well.

Quote from Behind

I just wanted to inform that this has been addressed in firmware 2.6 and now the profiler switches slots in a very smooth way! AMAZING!! Great update guys!

Yes behind the switching is quicker but there is still the clicking/pop issue that some users, me included are suffering when switching, but I do know CK and the team are working on a fix for this

Updated the firmware to 2.6 and the rig switching in Performance mode is significantly faster now with the FCB1010 and Eureka Prom. Works great now! Thanks!

Quote from Raoul23

Yes behind the switching is quicker but there is still the clicking/pop issue that some users, me included are suffering when switching, but I do know CK and the team are working on a fix for this

Raoul23, just wanted to ask: are you sure you're not sending multiple PC commands? Reason I'm asking is that I was also experiencing a long pause before my Kemper switched performances along with a short burst of noise.

I did some deep digging into my midi controller and found that I was indeed sending multiple commands to my Kemper. When I removed these, I noticed an immediate improvement in both switching time and the noise went away too. The latest 2.6 update was the icing on the cake, because what was a short switching time became even faster.

Pretty confident you went through these steps, but guess it doesn't hurt to help you ask in the interest of troubleshooting. My midi board is actually a pedal switching system with multiple inputs for pedals and it works brilliantly as a Kemper command centre as well. Depending on whether the looper on the Kemper is accessible from other midi boards, I might not even make a switch because the option of controlling multiple pedals and the Kemper simultaneously is great. I was going to sell the pedal switching system before I realised that my programming skills were in question, not the Kemper.

Just do a bit of digging. Go through all the menus on your FCB. I have a feeling you might be surprised at what you find. Even more so since other FCB users have made the same conclusion as me: there are no popping sounds from the Kemper unless you send multiple commands, in which case there is a delay as well, which you seem to be experiencing.

Quote from nightlight

Raoul23, just wanted to ask: are you sure you're not sending multiple PC commands? Reason I'm asking is that I was also experiencing a long pause before my Kemper switched performances along with a short burst of noise.

I did some deep digging into my midi controller and found that I was indeed sending multiple commands to my Kemper. When I removed these, I noticed an immediate improvement in both switching time and the noise went away too. The latest 2.6 update was the icing on the cake, because what was a short switching time became even faster.

Pretty confident you went through these steps, but guess it doesn't hurt to help you ask in the interest of troubleshooting. My midi board is actually a pedal switching system with multiple inputs for pedals and it works brilliantly as a Kemper command centre as well. Depending on whether the looper on the Kemper is accessible from other midi boards, I might not even make a switch because the option of controlling multiple pedals and the Kemper simultaneously is great. I was going to sell the pedal switching system before I realised that my programming skills were in question, not the Kemper.

Just do a bit of digging. Go through all the menus on your FCB. I have a feeling you might be surprised at what you find. Even more so since other FCB users have made the same conclusion as me: there are no popping sounds from the Kemper unless you send multiple commands, in which case there is a delay as well, which you seem to be experiencing.

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Hi Nightlight

Im using the FCB with the latest uno4kemper fitted so only the commands needed are programmed. I even tried my bass players FCB with uno4kemper fitted and still the same issue. What i dont understand is that i sent my backup to support and they couldnt replicate it even though on both my kempers i have this issue. Burkhard told me CK was aware of this issue and is trying to find a fix. I just find it starnge that some people have this noise issue and some dont, arent all KPAs fitted with the same hardware???

Quote from Raoul23

Hi Nightlight

Im using the FCB with the latest uno4kemper fitted so only the commands needed are programmed. I even tried my bass players FCB with uno4kemper fitted and still the same issue. What i dont understand is that i sent my backup to support and they couldnt replicate it even though on both my kempers i have this issue. Burkhard told me CK was aware of this issue and is trying to find a fix. I just find it starnge that some people have this noise issue and some dont, arent all KPAs fitted with the same hardware???

It is odd and I'm wondering if this is an FCB specific issue, but then again, there are other users here who don't have any issue. Hope it's not hardware related, that can be difficult to narrow down on. Do you have the opportunity to try out a generic midi controller and test this issue? As mentioned, I had this problem with my board, but when I looked into it, I found the issue was caused by multiple PC and CC messages being sent to the Kemper alongside the one I wanted to send.

Quote from nightlight

It is odd and I'm wondering if this is an FCB specific issue, but then again, there are other users here who don't have any issue. Hope it's not hardware related, that can be difficult to narrow down on. Do you have the opportunity to try out a generic midi controller and test this issue? As mentioned, I had this problem with my board, but when I looked into it, I found the issue was caused by multiple PC and CC messages being sent to the Kemper alongside the one I wanted to send.

I dont have the opportunity to try any other pedals I'm just waiting from the KPA team to say when they have fixed it

Must say this is my only issue i have with the KPA when thats fixed it will be perfect, for me anyway