Kemper users who also own an AxeFx II

Quote from lasvideo

I also have both. The Axe FX 2 FW15 upgrade has allowed the creation of amps and cabs that rival Kempers profiles very nicely. There is more "realism" then I have heard in past versions of Axe Fx FW.

I find they both bring something different to the musical table. Since I have several guitars, I am very comfortable having several processors. I intend on keeping them both since I would find it extremely difficult trying to pick one to get rid of.

Cooper Carter does a great job of sharing great info and insight into what the Axe FX is capable of.He is a very talented guitarist who also is a good teacher.

https://www.youtube.com/user/SoloAWeek

I wish Kemper had someone similar. It really helps sell the unit.

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This was my problem with the Axe FX II - with every new firmware upgrade everyone would rave about it and then another guy shows up on Youtube with a video with the AxeFX2 that sounds incredible. I was NEVER able to achieve those tones. I'm not blaming the AX - I blame myself. The thing is clearly capable of stellar tones and the effects were unbelievable, the tweaking options enormous, etc etc. I got sucked into tweaking hell and came out the other side not playing my guitar that much and not enjoying it anymore. When I got the KPA I loved the relative simplicity of it. For those who can access the secret sauce - the AX is great.

Since it is my original job-to assess (to make the right profile of ) the "enemy" and to create the right strategy against him - I would say that Axe strategy is in advance over the Kemper, in the last few firmwares .
Why ?
Because Fractal finally got it - the main advantage of KPA over AXE is the natural, organic amp tone.
You may have as much better effects and the rest of digital sheets, but on the end everything come up to the tone.
That's why we play guitar- to enjoy the good tone.
So Axe did the best in their latest Axe version and they will certainly proceed with looking for more organic and natural tone.

From other side, Kemper, after reaching that natural tone on the very beginning , says there is no need to improve that tone anymore ????
Instead to leave the room for tone improving , and to do small improvements over the time , KPA team was busy running for better effects, editors, etc shits in the manner to get close to the Axe in that regards.

What will happen ?

KPA will never get close to the AXe effects , routing possibility etc , this was not original intention anyway .
But, Axe , if they continue like this, CAN GET close , if not too close to KPA amp tone .

So, Mr Kemper , what you gonna do in regards of better profiling capability , which will result in better KPA sound .

Is there anything left in KPA device to achieve it ???

Best wishes and best strategy !

I, too, own both the AXFXII and the Kemper. So here's the lowdown:

AXFXII: Really shines for clean sounds and effects, esp reverse echoes, and Steve Vai weirdness..

Kemper: Profiler >>>>>AX Tone match for realism, especially with high-gain amps. Kemper tones are fuller with a LOT more balls, esp at high volume. The Kemper's noise gate is also much better.

I split my signal in an A/B box to stereo FRFR powered speakers off the floor in a large practice room and the sound ROCKS!

Quote from RLT

This was my problem with the Axe FX II - with every new firmware upgrade everyone would rave about it and then another guy shows up on Youtube with a video with the AxeFX2 that sounds incredible. I was NEVER able to achieve those tones. I'm not blaming the AX - I blame myself. The thing is clearly capable of stellar tones and the effects were unbelievable, the tweaking options enormous, etc etc. I got sucked into tweaking hell and came out the other side not playing my guitar that much and not enjoying it anymore. When I got the KPA I loved the relative simplicity of it. For those who can access the secret sauce - the AX is great.

Im not a tweaker. I dont tweak the Kemper or the Axe Fx 2 (FW15). I wouldn't even consider using either without the CLR speaker. Its a necessary part of the sound equation when using processors.

I can use existing profiles/presets as is or build from scratch on either unit and get what I want in a minimal amount of time.

Yek on the Axe FX forum has created an amazing array of clean FW15 presets that have the same authenticity that Kemper profiles have (to my ears anyway). Like I said, the new firmware is a quantum leap in sonic realism.

Quote from DrB

I, too, own both the AXFXII and the Kemper. So here's the lowdown:

AXFXII: Really shines for clean sounds and effects, esp reverse echoes, and Steve Vai weirdness..

Kemper: Profiler >>>>>AX Tone match for realism, especially with high-gain amps. Kemper tones are fuller with a LOT more balls, esp at high volume. The Kemper's noise gate is also much better.

I split my signal in an A/B box to stereo FRFR powered speakers off the floor in a large practice room and the sound ROCKS!

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This!

My History: I owned the Axefx Ultra and then then the Axe2 for quite a while. I think it was on V14 when I sold it.

My brief 2 cents:

Axefx2: Killer editing software, great sounding raw amp tones, excellent floorboard, great effects and routing possibilities, lots of dsp, run two seperate amps/cabs at the same time.

Kemper: No editing software, great sounding raw amp tones, no floorboard, great effects, adequate routing possibilities, enough dsp, only one amp and cab at a time.

On paper, the Axefx2 seems to win, but the reason I chose to keep the Kemper was because I am just recording and the thing I care most about is simply realistic, in your face raw amp tone. To my ears, the Kemper is a couple percentage points closer in both sound and feel.
Both sound great, but to my ears, through great monitors, the Kemper just sounded and felt more like I was playing an amp.
Really miss the editing software with the Axefx, but hopefully we see something similar in our lifetimes for the Kemper.

cheers,
Steve

Quote from lasvideo

Cooper Carter does a great job of sharing great info and insight into what the Axe FX is capable of.He is a very talented guitarist who also is a good teacher.

https://www.youtube.com/user/SoloAWeek

Very good tones

Thanks for sharing.

You are welcome

I've owned an Axe-FX Ultra from almost the beginning and still own it, but don't use it that much. I currently own and use the Kemper. I have written an extensive document on my experiences with these devices and my experiences with using them as well as interfacing with the respective companies. Maybe one day I'll post it here. But suffice it to say that the Kemper to *me* is the better product.

In a nutshell, the Kemper is far easier to use, tweak, and dial-in a tone that I like. The thousands of profiles out there are amazing, and the list continues to grow. Only after doing my own profiles of my own gear that I started to realize the power of the profiling concept, and the ability to share these profiles. In my opinion, this far exceeds any pseudo Ultra-Res IR concept (Google this and Jay Mitchell to see how bogus this concept really is). The Axe-FX simulates the circuit schematic and thus needs a schematic to start with. This is lower-level simulation (simulating the components such as tubes, transformers, etc.). Most every amp sim (HW or SW) does it this way. I love the Kemper philosophy of treating the amp like a black box and determining its distortion characteristics. This is simulation at the highest level and is truly innovative and novel.

Sure, the Axe-FX has an over-priced, dedicated foot controller, has more flexible routing, "better" effects, and a USB audio interface. But for Live Sound, I challenge anybody in the audience to hear the difference in effects using the same PA. And in recording -- true recordings use post-processing for those most of the time. Also, do I really need 4 parallel chains in stereo of effects and amps? Sure -- nice to have, but rarely used in most cases. Flexibility overkill.

Then there's the whole business side and attitudes of the Axe-FX team. It just doesn't sit well with me. The arrogance, condescension to customers, and poor behaviour of the people involved -- both from the company and their fan boys -- is astounding. I also don't buy all the gimmicks (Ultra-Res) IR and marketing tricks (I'm all sold out of the II -- but the II XL (my most expensive product) is available!).

If you want to just sit back and enjoy playing with awesome tone, with minimal amount of tweaking, as well as enjoy thousands of different amps, pedals, distortion devices, etc. -- then the Kemper is for you!

Quote from Rescator

From other side, Kemper, after reaching that natural tone on the very beginning , says there is no need to improve that tone anymore ????
Instead to leave the room for tone improving , and to do small improvements over the time , KPA team was busy running for better effects, editors, etc shits in the manner to get close to the Axe in that regards.

What will happen ?

KPA will never get close to the AXe effects , routing possibility etc , this was not original intention anyway .
But, Axe , if they continue like this, CAN GET close , if not too close to KPA amp tone .

So, Mr Kemper , what you gonna do in regards of better profiling capability , which will result in better KPA sound .

Is there anything left in KPA device to achieve it ???

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First off, I own both and enjoy both of them and don't see it as an either / or proposition. My question to you is if the KPA captures the sound of the real amp then what more do you want it to capture? Michael of U2Guitartutorials.com did a very interesting poll of an Axe Fx II vs a real Vox amp at http://www.youtube.com/watch?v…=UUpIYdJtdY2C3F-Z1B4epuwA and then made a detailed explanation in point #16 at http://forum.fractalaudio.com/…-ac-30-a.html#post1042850 as to why he thinks people voted the way they did. I'll save you the effort and tell you that at a ratio of more than 3 to 1 people picked the Axe Fx as the real amp over the Vox. If you are going for replicating the authenticity of the actual amp then more than two thirds got it wrong! I am personally happy that the Kemper seems to come as close as possible to capturing the sound of a specific amp with specific settings, mic'ed in a specific room with with a specific mic. You may not like the sound of a profile but if it is done well then that is what the amp sounds like at those settings and adding more for the sake of adding more would mean that it is not accurately doing what it is supposed to do. That said, I use an A/B switch and send a signal to one or both of the units and while the effects in the Axe are not necessarily "better" (to quote ampjunkie), they are generally more expansive (though the KPA formant shift can't be matched by the Axe) and with Axe Edit it is easier to use. Also, the MFC controller may be expensive but at least Fractal has been able to get one out the door, it is built like a tank and it works really well without much fuss! The quality of some of the AxeFx profiles that someone recently posted on the forum and the positive response from people to those profiles talks to the quality of the the sounds the Axe can produce as well. Now if Kemper would just remove the annoying ratings popup on the Rig Edit software ...

Quote from Rescator

Since it is my original job-to assess (to make the right profile of ) the "enemy" and to create the right strategy against him - I would say that Axe strategy is in advance over the Kemper, in the last few firmwares .
Why ?
Because Fractal finally got it - the main advantage of KPA over AXE is the natural, organic amp tone.
You may have as much better effects and the rest of digital sheets, but on the end everything come up to the tone.
That's why we play guitar- to enjoy the good tone.
So Axe did the best in their latest Axe version and they will certainly proceed with looking for more organic and natural tone.

From other side, Kemper, after reaching that natural tone on the very beginning , says there is no need to improve that tone anymore ????
Instead to leave the room for tone improving , and to do small improvements over the time , KPA team was busy running for better effects, editors, etc shits in the manner to get close to the Axe in that regards.

What will happen ?

KPA will never get close to the AXe effects , routing possibility etc , this was not original intention anyway .
But, Axe , if they continue like this, CAN GET close , if not too close to KPA amp tone .

So, Mr Kemper , what you gonna do in regards of better profiling capability , which will result in better KPA sound .

Is there anything left in KPA device to achieve it ???

Best wishes and best strategy !

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I think 110% realer update for Kemper is on the way after this post. we all need to be afraid.

All we need for a better KPA sound is better profiles - thats the great thing of the KPA strategy.

For the Ax we need to wait for the next firmware and tweak a lot.

As for my ears the Ax Demo sounds like an AxeFx - some may like it - I prefer real tube amp sounds - and the KPA is IMHO much closer to that sound.

I have owned (and loved at that time) both the Ultra and Axe2 - sold both ...

... stll love the KPA

Quote from mdeeRocks

I think 110% realer update for Kemper is on the way after this post. we all need to be afraid.

The KPA is not perfect.

We all know that some amps and overdrives cannot be profiled. It's written in the manual and there were some examples of amps in the Wikpa.

Adding the ability to profile those kind of amps would be an improvement.

For those in the know, how did Mr. Chase solved (if he ever did) the issue of the static interaction between the power section and the IRs?

Quote from viabcroce

For those in the know, how did Mr. Chase solved (if he ever did) the issue of the static interaction between the power section and the IRs?

Isn't the KPA an emulation tweaked with the parameters detected during the profiling process (including the interaction between the power amp and the cab)?

Then the interaction could be emulated in the Axe too. Not sure how is implemented...

Axe owners: Are there any parameters in the Axe models to control this interaction?

Quote from viabcroce

For those in the know, how did Mr. Chase solved (if he ever did) the issue of the static interaction between the power section and the IRs?

All I know is that I was blown away when I did a tone match using a sound sample of my Taylor 810CE and then used it with my Musicman Majesty. Amazing match.

Like I said earlier whatever has changed in FW 15 has allowed tones in Axe FX to make quantum leaps toward satisfying realism. No massive tweeking needed.

But this in no way prevents me from loving to use my Kemper as well. They both have a place in my studio (and in my heart )

I suck absolutely in all these technologies, perhaps the future of the Kemper is the way to not (or less) truncate the signal during profiling in order to capture more the signal of the room ??
This is for the moment the only way of improvement of the Kemper Profiling technology... perhaps this would need much more DSP power...

Quote from djemass

I suck absolutely in all these technologies, perhaps the future of the Kemper is the way to not (or less) truncate the signal during profiling in order to capture more the signal of the room ??
This is for the moment the only way of improvement of the Kemper Profiling technology... perhaps this would need much more DSP power...

See, THIS would be interesting. Another way this could be done, maybe, would be to capture the room reverberations, and then APPROXIMATE those using the built-in delays and reverbs - i.e. storing the earliest few reflections with in a delay preset, and choose a reverb patch based on the general reverberation characters in the room - and then set that up to give some of the same character. Then load both these into their respective effects slots. NO idea how involved that would be, but I'm thinking it would be great. Or maybe design new delay and reverb effects better suited to this, if necessary.

I'm thinking... Awesome!

Especially since you could turn it off if you didn't like it, or the room was crappy.....

Quote from pacocito

Isn't the KPA an emulation tweaked with the parameters detected during the profiling process (including the interaction between the power amp and the cab)?

Then the interaction could be emulated in the Axe too. Not sure how is implemented...

Fact is, that the last time I checked there was no interaction at all in the Axe. IRs and power amps are coming from different sources, so any eventual interaction is just emulated.

On the contrary, in the Profiler the interaction is not emulated at all, it is profiled at the source so it's "all original"

Tone matching has nothing to do with dynamic power amp/cab impedance interaction, BTW

Interaction...emulation....whatever.

I say, if it sounds good, it IS good. And they both sound GREAT to me.

But if you derive pleasure from scientific analysis of the process...have at it. I'll be in the studio playing my Majesty through both