Why does it sound sharp and harsh

    Just as an aside to this and for the OP. Were those re-amped tracks in Cubase using (JVM Orange OD1 + Mars 1960) If so I presume these are commercial offerings as I don't see them in my KPA. Also were they out of the box are tweaked.



    The reason I ask is I'm still having difficulty tone matching some of the isolated guitar parts I'm hearing either on the forum or the commercial clips. Whilst I sense you would rather put this thread to bed I think there is a benefit for 'bedroom' artists such as myself to learn by comparing tones if only to confirm we are setting up our gain staging correctly in our DAW and also the interaction between different guitars and the Sense settings.



    If you'd rather PM please do :)




    I'd just like to know as

    Quote from danniee

    To be honest, you just come across as bitter and bored to me, just looking for a debate. You don't even have to help or bother to write here if you think I'm an idiot, right? You are certainly over exaggerating things. I wanted to let people know of my experience because I figured it could be relevant for people to know when trying to help me if I've just picked up a guitar yesterday or if I've been playing for a long time. It has nothing to do about being megalomaniac. I even said way back that it could have to do with me not being experienced with big rigs and recording those kind of amps. If anyone is a troll it might be you sir and I feel as if I am feeding you right now. I'm not here to debate, I'm here to learn and I feel as I did thank's to all the kind people posting here without being rude.


    Oh, that's right. You don't want to tell us what you're monitoring on, though we asked politely. You want to give us your life story. Bravo, Sir.


    Anyone can look at my first post to easily verify whether I have indeed been lurking on this thread to troll you. Oh wait, you're the guy posting in the public forums saying the Kemper is harsh and brittle until now...
    You're the guy who didn't know what clean sense was... Oh wait, now all of a sudden, you're the guy that loves the tone.


    Why didn't you start with that? Why all this song and dance through four or five pages before you acknowledged how much you love the tone? Get off your high horse and come down to our level, your lordship. I mean, honestly, the part about me trolling you escapes me. And my question is as valid now as it was then: what are you monitoring on? Not that I care anymore.


    If you said you love the tone initially, I'd have just said +1 in my first post and left you to whatever world you live in. Sometimes, I wish that the mods here were like the guys on the Fractal Forums, booting off people like you, criticizing the product in the public forums about non-issues because they didn't RTFM... But not often, this is a very friendly place in general and I hope you can figure out that if the Kemper is too hot going into Cubase, adjust your master output settings in the output tab to permanently resolve your clipping issue instead of fiddling with master volume. Of course, since I don't know whether you're monitoring using headphones, monitoring through speakers after going into Cubase, direct monitoring as you record, I can not narrow down at which stage your signal might be clipping, if at all. Unless, of course, your firmware is corrupt, in which case you should just flash it again. Also, since those profiles are not in the Kemper, I'm assuming you recorded them, in which case perhaps the issue really boils down to the quality of the profiles.


    Wait, hang on, I'll guess what the problem is yet. Just keep giving us gems like "If I didn't turn the signal down, it would clip in all situations" and "what's clean sense" and we'll eventually finish wiping your ar*e, your lordship.


    Imagine the trolls on the Kemper forum... :thumbdown:

    Quote from Michael_dk

    Input signal - I guess you mean the meter on the TRACK you are recording, right?


    No, you shouldn't have to have input monitoring engaged, normally. But it depends - which audio interface do you use? I.e. how is your KPA hooked up to the computer?

    Cubase have two main faders that I know of. Input signal and master volume. The input signal will be clipping if I don't turn down the volume on the Kemper from say 12 o clock to about 8 o clock. I use M-Audio Delta and my Kemper is connected with audio cables to the soundcard input.


    I agree with you. The reason I felt I needed to start this thread was probably because I had no real reference. I imagined a sound in my head and I expected it to sound like that. The track I posted was recorded in Cubase playing through the Kemper. All I did was clone the recorded track and pan them hard L and R. No other tweaking. Just used the profile out of the box as it were. I can't remember if I bought this particular profile but it is likely since I bought most of the ones I use.

    Quote from danniee

    Cubase have two main faders that I know of. Input signal and master volume. The input signal will be clipping if I don't turn down the volume on the Kemper from say 12 o clock to about 8 o clock. I use M-Audio Delta and my Kemper is connected with audio cables to the soundcard input.




    OK, there is a difference between fader and meter :) Fader is what you turn up and down, the meter is what shows the signal level. What I am asking is which METER shows the clipping, not which fader you've (possibly) adjusted :) So where do you see the red light? If I understand correctly, it is the TRACK meter - not the meter on the MASTER BUS, but on the actual track.


    Another thing, now that I know your interface - you have a MixControl or something like that for the delta, right? I mean a piece of software. That one also has meters, faders and such. Could you post a screenshot of this?




    Also: Which output(s) of the kemper have you connected to the delta?

    The meter I am talking about are the two showing on the far right if you look at this image. I know the left one show the input signal and the right one is master. It's the input signal that will clip and hit red so the signal from the kemper is too hot I'm guessing, which is strange since master output vol is set at -21dB.
    [Blocked Image: http://musicproductiontips.net/wp-content/uploads/2013/08/19-tempo-track-on.png]


    I have connected the Kemper from the monitor output going into the soundcard.

    Quote from danniee

    The meter I am talking about are the two showing on the far right if you look at this image. I know the left one show the input signal and the right one is master. It's the input signal that will clip and hit red so the signal from the kemper is too hot I'm guessing, which is strange since master output vol is set at -21dB.
    [Blocked Image: http://musicproductiontips.net/wp-content/uploads/2013/08/19-tempo-track-on.png]


    I have connected the Kemper from the monitor output going into the soundcard.



    OK, I need a screenshot of the mixcontrol software that came with the interface :)


    Furthermore, click the master button on the right side of the kemper, navigate to the SECOND page using the arrow buttons and tell me what it says above the second knob from the left - the one labeled "Monitor volume". Also tell me if the checkbox above called "monitor out link" is checked or unchecked (but I guess it is checked).

    My master button is called output button so I had some hard time finding it lol. Monitor vol is set at 0dB. Monitor out link is unchecked. I'll see if I can get a screenshot :)

    Just a FYI, I see that you've mentioned you're keeping clean sense at 0. Here are my clean sense settings:


    - Ibanez Universe, Fender Stratocaster with low output DiMarzio Areas, Ibanez RG with DiMarzio Fred: Clean Sense at -6.0


    - Jackson JDR94 with DiMarzio PAF Pro: Clean Sense at -10.0


    With clean sense settings higher than those I feel the tone becomes a bit too brittle to my taste.

    Quote from danniee

    ...It sounds the same no matter if I listen through my PC speakers or expensive headphones....I've only used VST guitars previously. So, and as I mentioned in my last post, maybe this is the harsh reality.

    PC speakers and even the most expensive headphones are unusable to get an objective opinion about sounds, because they change frequencies drastically. You need "as-linear-as-possible"-monitors and a good room acoustic, too, otherwise all discussions will be useless.


    I play a lot of sessions and no producer ever had just one complaint about my Kemper-profiles, they all sound great and everybody is thinking that I'm using "real amps". The same with live-performances, on a big venue-tour I played recently (60 shows) everything was done by the KPA, 100% positive reaction from the FOH-guy and all musicians I had invited.


    Very often sound-problems may come from another source, f.e. every VST-plug-in I know (Guitar Rig, Amplitube ect.) sounds more "harsh" than the KPA. Guitars play a very big role, too.


    If you want to hear my KPA-sounds, just listen to the "Guenter Haas"-demos at Soundside.de or to the tracks 4, 5, 7, 8, 9 and 11 on my own album .

    ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    first name: Guenter / family name: Haas / www.guenterhaas.de


    I listened to a number of your demos on the soundside.de page, and they'e as encouraging as they are impressive--outstanding playing, and a demonstration of awesome and authentic tone. I know what Danniee means though, I feel a little of that. The rhythm guitar sounds of the Kemper are better and more realistic to me than what I've gotten from my Axe-Fx. However, I've had a harder time getting lead sounds. They often sound thin and a little like a solid state. However, I've only had it a couple of days, and hearing your amazing demos tells me that the problem is surely with me, rather than the Kemper.


    I'm playing through 2 QSC K10 powered monitors.


    Actually, listening to several of your demos and many others on the soundside,de page is one reason I bought the Kemper. Now I think I want to buy some of those profiles and probably some from The Amp Factory, and continue to work with the KPA to get the lead tone I like: full-bodied, creamy, and with long sustain. I've been using the Axe-Fx's JVM410 OD2 with a Tube Driver for my lead sound and like it better than my actual JVM410. With the Kemper, I miss that Tube Driver, but I think probably with the right profiles and more work on my part I can get the leads I want and keep the Kemper and use it instead of the Axe-Fx.


    Thanks to everyone for sharing expertise and experience.

    I'd advise you to work on your tone using free/factory profiles. You'd benefit a lot from realizing what makes a good tone.
    Believe me, it's impossible that the issues you're having are related to not using commercial profiles. Work on mastering the device... and your sound.


    As a side note, what you hear on demos strongly depends on the guitar/PU used and, mostly, on the player. Most of the times you d/l a rig and it sounds very different from the demo you heard.

    Quote from viabcroce

    I'd advise you to work on your tone using free/factory profiles. You'd benefit a lot from realizing what makes a good tone.
    Believe me, it's impossible that the issues you're having are related to not using commercial profiles. Work on mastering the device... and your sound.


    As a side note, what you hear on demos strongly depends on the guitar/PU used and, mostly, on the player. Most of the times you d/l a rig and it sounds very different from the demo you heard.


    It's true, I have more work to do. I'm going to note all the settings on my real JVM410 OD2 channel and on the Axe-Fx JVM preset and try applying them to the various JVM profiles. I'm just spoiled from having so many amazing, useful default rhythm tones in the Kemper and lead tones in the Axe, I want to push a button and hear "Mark's Ideal Lead Tone." :)

    This can happen... As long as you put something behind that button beforehand :)


    Are you sure you're already mastering al least the Amp section's controls? They are extremely easy to manage, and powerful at the same time.
    My advise would be: forget the Axe for a while. Choose any tone in the ballpark and use only the tonestack and the Amp controls in the Profiler to forge it towards your ideal. Great school. Tone is there, like the Moses' statue in the marble block :thumbup:

    Quote from viabcroce

    This can happen... As long as you put something behind that button beforehand :)


    Are you sure you're already mastering al least the Amp section's controls? They are extremely easy to manage, and powerful at the same time.
    My advise would be: forget the Axe for a while. Choose any tone in the ballpark and use only the tonestack and the Amp controls in the Profiler to forge it towards your ideal. Great school. Tone is there, like the Moses' statue in the marble block :thumbup:


    Thanks. No I haven't mastered even that aspect of it yet, I'm so new. With so many profiles and rigs, I was just feeling a bit pressured for time, since I planned to either use it with my band instead of the Axe, and have 30 days to return it if I decide against it. However, now I'm pretty sure I'll keep it no matter what, even if only for recording rhythm guitar parts--although I'm sure you're right, my tone is in there somewhere!