Axe FX II + Kemper together (Kemper in the Axe FX II FXLOOP), the ULTIMATE TONE RIG!!!!!!

OK guys, here we go (drumroll

I´m finally going to use the Axe and the Kemper together, using the Kemper in the FXLOOP of the Axe with the 4 cable method (thu I´m not sure if I need the 4th cable, I´ll let you know why some lines below and ask your oppinion).

Why have I taken this decission???

1 - I´ve tested that the Kemper sounds EXACTLY the same when run directly (Guitar--->Kemper----> DAW/Poweramp+cabinet) than when I use the Kemper in the Axe Fx II FXLOOP (Guitar----> Axe--->Kemper in the Axe FX II FXLOOP-----DAW/Poweramp+Cabinet).

Why am I saying something that should be obvious????. Well, when I tested the Axe and the Kemper 2 years ago, I noticed that the Kemper sounded different (better) when runned directly than when runned inside the Axe FX FXLOOP.Did a lot of tests, and no matter what I touched, adjusted or tried, the Kemper lost some of his "mojo" when run inside the Axe FX II FXLOOP.Believe me, I A/B´d a lot of times.I don´t know if the Axe has improved the connections of the FXLOOP block or whatever...is maybe is because in the test I made 2 years ago I was running the Axe by USB to my DAW and now I´m doing it thru the OUTPUT 1 to a M-AUDIO FAST TRACK PRO...is the only difference, I don´t know, maybe the USB interface "sucked" some of the Kemper tone....don´t really know, havent tried to do it thru USB again and test, maybe is just that I made a mistake two years ago when testing..... I will test that in the next days.

My test was, one track recording from the SPDIF OUT of the Kemper, another track recording the same signal BUT from the Axe OUTPUT 1 putting the Kemper in the Axe Fx II FXLOOP, blank preset with just one FXLOOP block, so, when I played the guitar connected to the Axe, the guitar was also going to the Kemper and, out from the Kemper SPDIF OUT directly to the DAW and another signal that was procesed by the Kemper and sent to the Axe FX II RETURN, so I could record both tracks at the same time, one recorded directly from the Kemper and another one recorded from the Axe FX II OUTPUT, being the Axe Fx II preset just a FXLOOP, so it was just the Kemper sounding thru the Axe FXII FXLOOP.

Both signals were IDENTICALLY, so, the AXE FX II FXLOOP doesn´t color the Kemper signal.

That was very very importanta for me, that was the main reason because I sold the Axe II 2 years ago, as far as it coloured my Kemepr signal and couldn´t use both units together, I decided to stick with the Kemper and sell the Axe II.

2 - Now that I can have my beautiful / unaltered Kemper tones inside a FXLOOP block of the Axe FX II, I can use all the flexibility of the Axe FX in editing, also use all the wonderful Axe FX II presets / tones without giving up the Kemper tones.And also I´m able to add the wonderful Axe FX II efects to my favourite Kemper raw amp tones.Resuming, I can have the best of both worlds.I can get and MFC for the Axe and also control the Kemper MIDI THRU.I can make as many prestes in the Axe FX as I want using this or that profile, all I have to do is put the FXLOOP block in the Axe (wich is really the Kemper) and assign the MIDI number of that preset to the desired Kemper Profile. EASY!!!!!.And what about "Mixing" and Amp+Cab Blocks of the Axe in paralel with a FXLOOP wich contains a killer Kemper Profile???? Two differents amp in STEREO, Kemper+Axe FX power!!!! Amazing possibilities here, I think I´m getting dizzy

3 - I can use that Axe FX II + Kemper "ULTIMATE TONE RIG", also known as the "RODNEY KING RIG" (Can't we all just get along?) directly to my DAW or even to a poweramp+Cabinet, disabling all Axe and Kemper Cabinet and poweramp sims off (yes, I know that the Kemper poweramp sims can´t be turned off, but they sound GREAT in my Mesa 20:20 anyway.... )

Here is a pic of my connection in the back of both units using the 4 cable method:

[Blocked Image: http://i60.tinypic.com/1zlpu6p.jpg]

This is how I use the 4 Cable Method....thu I think I can get ride of the RED cable, please guys, read what I do and help me with that question!

1- Guitar into the Axe FX II front INSTRUMENT INPUT

2- Axe FX II Output 1 (L unbalanced) into the Kemper Return input (RED cable)---> I think I can get rid of this cable, because I guess this one just takes the processed signal of the Axe (lets say a Axe FX II Presets with amp and cab) into the Kemper FX LOOP Return, so you could use the Axe FX II inside the Kemper FX LOOP and add effects or EQ or whatever with the Kemper....I don´t want to do that, I just wanna use the kemper inside the Axe FX II FXLOOP, so I can get rid of that cable, right???

3- Axe FX II Output 2 (L unbalanced) into the the Kemper Alternative Input ---> (Makes sense, that takes the MONO signal of the guitar to the Kemper for processing)

4- Kemper Main Outputs (L and R unbalanced) into the Axe2 FX Return (Input 2) (2 BLACK Cables)----> Kemper signal procesed back to the Axe FX II in STEREO, so yopu can use some of the Stereo posibilities of the Kemper.

5- Axe FX II Output 1 (L and R Balanced or TRS Unbalanced, your choice) into the M-Audio Card or the Poweramp Stereo Inputs.

I/O Settings Axe FX II in the Audio Menu:

Main Input Source- Analog (In 1)
Input 1 Left Select- FRONT
Input 1 Mode- LEFT
Input 2 Mode- STEREO
Output 1 Mode- STEREO
Output 2 Mode- L+R SUM

So....I guess this is it!.

I´m exhausted, whole day testing / trying, but I think I finally got it!!!!!

Share your thoughts / oppinions (and let me know if I´m right with my supposition about getting rid of the RED Cable! )

P.S. Yes, I´m gonna get a 6U rack for putting this shit together.....

Quote from VirulentVitality

I don't think you need the red cable.
My Axe2 output 2 (L) goes to the front of the Kemper, perhaps the Kemper Alternative Input is the better choice?

I do it like this:

1- Guitar into the Axe2 front INSTR input

2- Axe2 output 1 (L&R unbalanced) into the Kemper return inputs
(not needed)

2- Axe2 output 2 (L) into the the front Kemper input

3- Kemper Main output (L&R) into the Axe2 FX Return (input 2)
(Kemper balanced XLR out, TRS Axe2 FX Return)

4- Axe2 output 1 (L&R Balanced) into the Duet (or whatever you have)

6- Turn up OUTPUT LEVELS 1&2 on the Axe2 (10 to 12 o'clock is good for me)

Additional info:

I/O Settings Axe2

Input Menu: Input 2 is set very low, I use 2.7%

Main Input Source- Analog (In 1)
Input 1 Left Select- FRONT
Input 1 Mode- LEFT
Input 2 Mode- STEREO
Output 1 Mode- STEREO
Output 2 Mode- L+R SUM

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Thanks!!!

Yes I supposed the RED Cable was not necesary.

About the alternative input in the back of the Kemper, is exactly the same as the front inlut, so is better because you don't need larger cable and is more easy to connect with just wires in the back.

Quote from Quitty

The rear input is noisier. Don't use it if you don't have to.

Didn't notice that when I tested, they sounded exactly the same....

I've readed some posts about noises or signal/noise ratio....gotta check that.

No big problem...could use front input, but would like to use the rear input because all
The cables are hidden in the back and I can close the rack.

So....

Could I use the Return Input in the Kemper???? ( Alternative input hiss. )

Maybe that one has less noise and makes same function...

3 alternatives for sending the guitar signal are:

- Front Input (annoying cable in the front that wouldn't let me close the rack)

- Alt. Input (noisier???)

- Return Input (maybe the right one!!!)

Quote from Quitty

All other inputs are 3dB noisier.

Maybe an angled cable?

Could work, but the cable would be routed outside the rack , so you couln't close it.

I didn't notice any noise with the rear input....maybe is because the noise gate of the Kemper or because the signal doesn't come directly from the guitar but from The Axe FX....

Quote from Deny

Just keep in mind that you're adding up both boxes' latencies. Also did you try connecting them using S/PDIF connections? I'd give it a shot since that way the signal path doesn't run through multiple A/D/A conversions.

I can notice any latency at all.

About SPDIF, is not possible to have both units working together with SPDIF, couldnt use the Kemper "inside" the Axe.

Well...Houston, we´ve got a problem....

My main point for hooking the Axe and the Kemper together was this statement:

1 - I´ve tested that the Kemper sounds EXACTLY the same when run directly (Guitar--->Kemper----> DAW/Poweramp+cabinet) than when I use the Kemper in the Axe Fx II FXLOOP (Guitar----> Axe--->Kemper in the Axe FX II FXLOOP-----DAW/Poweramp+Cabinet).

Well.....we gotta check that point again....

Today, I was testing again and adjusting levels, etc and I noticed a difference (very subtle) between the sound of the Kemper when the signal was directly from the Kemper to the Daw than when the Kemper was going thru the FXLOOP of the Axe FX II.

Last two days I tested with mainly high gain / distorted profiles, and didn´t notice any difference, but today, testing with cleans / ov erdrive tones of the Kemper, I heard tthis subtle difference.

My test was:

1- Guitar into the Axe FX II front INSTRUMENT INPUT

2 - Axe FX II Output 2 (L unbalanced) into the the Kemper Alternative Input

3- Kemper Main Outputs (L and R unbalanced) into the Axe2 FX Return (Input 2)

4- Axe FX II Output 1 (L and R Balanced or TRS Unbalanced, your choice) into the M-Audio Card or the Poweramp Stereo Inputs.

5 - Kemper SPDIF OUT into the M-Audio Card SPDIF IN

That way, the AXE FX II L/R Output is the guitar procesed thru the Kemper Profile, back to the Axe FX II in the FXLOOP and then sent to the DAW (nothing added), and the Kemper SPDIF OUT is the guitar processed thru the Kemper Profile DIRECTLY to the DAW via SPDIF, so no routing thru the Axe.

That way, I can record in real time both signals, the Kemper Profile thru the Axe FX II FXLOOP and the Kemper Profile directly from the Kemper.

Well, watching the recorded signal graphic in the REAPER, the Kemper thru the Axe FX II FXLOOP recorded track (Track 1) looks more compressed, less dynamic than the Kemper recorded directly (Track 2)Please, show your oppinions about that!:

[Blocked Image: http://oi60.tinypic.com/ih0bxw.jpg]

And this is the recorded track, Kemper thru Axe FX FXLOOP track is all panned to LEFT and the Kemper direct signal is all panned to RIGHT.

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.…/Axe%20L%20Kemper%20R.wav

I can hear the Axe track in the LEFT more "trebly/compressed" maybe than the Kemper in the RIGHT.

What would you think??

Do you think the Axe FX II FXLOOP colors the sound of the Kemper???

Do you think that maybe is because I´m using a SPDIF OUT in the Kemper and an XLR OUTPUT in the Axe FX II???

Am I getting obsessed with this???

Is stated that the Kemper SPDIF OUT sounds the same than the XLR OUT.

Anyway, I'll make a test using the XLR OUT in the Kemper and comparing both tracks.

Anyway, the difference is very subtle and I don't think it is because of the SPDIF Kemper Out vs. XLR Axe Out...

Do you guys hear the difference in the track????

What do you think about the signal graphic difference in the Reaper pic?:

[Blocked Image: http://oi60.tinypic.com/ih0bxw.jpg]

OK, after a lot of hard tweaking and testing, I finally solved it!!!! There was a problem with the volumes/ signal outputs / inputs of each unit, producing lack of dynamics/clipping/difference in sound.But I finally got it!!!!.Now the Kemper sounds and feel EXACTLY the same as it always have when connected alone as a single unit.....but now hooked inside the Axe Fx II FXLOOP.

And....here are the ultimate settings for hooking the Kemper inside the Axe FX II FXLOOP and having the Kemper signal just as it goes out of the Kemper, no coloration, no lose of dynamics, no clipping, EXACTLY the same signal you'd get from the Kemper without going thru the Axe, so you can have the Kemper as a FXLOOP in the Axe and do whatever you want with it, enjoy both units tones and even mis them.

I call this "SteelEdge's Tone Collusion" !!!!! XDDD

1 - Guitar into the Axe FX II front INSTRUMENT INPUT

2 - Axe FX II Output 2 (L unbalanced) into the the Kemper Alternative Input ---> (That takes the MONO signal of the guitar to the Kemper for processing)

3 - Kemper Main Outputs (L and R unbalanced) into the Axe2 FX Return (Input 2)----> Kemper signal procesed back to the Axe FX II in STEREO, so you can use some of the Stereo posibilities of the Kemper.

4 - Axe FX II Output 1 (L and R Balanced or TRS Unbalanced, your choice) into the M-Audio Card or the Poweramp Stereo Inputs.

Kemper Settings:

INPUT--> Alternative Input.
OUTPUT MAIN Volume : -17
SPDIF Volume: -6 (this matches the spdif volume to the output volume of the Axe, so you can compare both signals are exactly the same)

Axe Settings:

- OUTPUT 1 Knob: 9 o'clock (this matches the Axe preset average volume output to the Kemper profiles average volume output, so no significant volume changes when going from an Axe FX preset to the FXLOOP with the Kemper profile)

- OUTPUT 2 : Maximum, 5 o'clock (this makes the guitar signal coming from the Axe match the guitar signal that you'd obtain connecting the same guitar to the Kemper Input)

I/O Settings Axe FX II in the Audio Menu:

INPUT 1 : Indiferent
INPUT 2 : 2,4%

Main Input Source- Analog (In 1)
Input 1 Left Select- FRONT
Input 1 Mode- LEFT
Input 2 Mode- STEREO
Output 1 Mode- STEREO
Output 2 Mode- L+R SUM

And...the secret ingredient: You have to set the Level in the Axe FX LOOP FX block to 20.Save that as a block preset (I name it Kemper) and you just recall that block everytime you want to put the Kemper as the amp in the Axe layout.