New strings = truss rod adjustment???

  • Hi All,


    I'm currently experimenting with different tunings - and just wanted to check advice on possible truss-rod adjustments -


    I have been using E standard with 10-46 strings - which gave an approx tension of 97.6lbs on the neck.


    I've re-strung with 12-54's in C# standard - which is coming up as 103.9lb.


    So, overall difference is an extra 6.3lb - do you think I need to make any truss-rod adjustments? I'm not sure if I'm going to keep the guitar in this tuning as it's only been re-strung for 24 hours. I like a higher action - so both treble and bass side strings are 2mm @ 12th fret.


    Checking the neck relief today with capo @ 1st fret and holding down on the 16th where the neck meets the body gives a good neck relief @ 7th and 8th frets - (under a business card thickness) and no buzzing. Eye-balling the neck doesn't show a visible bow - and neck was almost straight in E.


    So, hoping extra tension is minimal - and I can evaluate the tuning for a few weeks - and do my axe no harm??


    Many thanks,


    -Tonerider

  • If you don't experience any buzzing and don't have too much relief (I think usually people say around a biz card thickness, but I've seen many different positions to ret with your hand when measuring), then you're golden :)


    if it has sat for 24 hours and there are no problem, I think you're fine. I don't think you can harm your guitar like that, if you just keep an eye on it.


    Have you done truss rod setups before? If not, always remember to loosen the rod BEFORE tightening! and go in small increments (an eighth of a turn, retune, let rest for five minutes, retune again and check). But it's not that dangerous or mysterious if you just take care. Don't FORCE anything! Oh, and slacken the strings before adjusting the rod, each time.

  • Brilliant - thanks for the reply Michael.


    Not done any truss adj myself before - so just wanted to do a sense check. Have done general maintenance and wiring own pu's etc - just always been wary - but guess if I don't try I don't know - and as long as careful, can't do any harm!


    Thanks again,


    -Tonerider

  • Yeah, you have to do it yourself to learn to do it yourself I guess :)


    I always slacked the strings when doing any kind of setup work that is impacted by string tension (action, intonation, truss rod), so I don't strip the threads or break anything.


    When changing string gauge and/or doing alternate tunings, you often have to readjust intonation, especially for bigger changes (which this is).

  • I'd be highly surprised if you didn't.


    Going from 10 -> 12s should pull the neck and raise the action. It all depends on how comfortable the action is, or rather, how strong your fingers are.


    Most would want the rod adjusted to bring that action down, as 12's are already harder to bend, even more so at a higher action.

  • Based on your measurements and the fact you don't have buzzing indicates you don't need to adjust the truss rod in this case. Adjusting the truss rod is actually very easy, you just need to be cautious. Lots of videos on YouTube etc., but essentially you would want to loosen the truss rod slightly first to ensure the adjusting nut isn't stuck and then adjust no more than and 1/8 to 1/4 turn before allowing the neck to settle. If you haven't done before I would NOT adjust more than 1/8 turn. With truss rods a little goes a long way. Always tune to pitch and remeasure neck relief after any adjustment.

  • I'd be highly surprised if you didn't.


    Going from 10 -> 12s should pull the neck and raise the action. It all depends on how comfortable the action is, or rather, how strong your fingers are.


    Most would want the rod adjusted to bring that action down, as 12's are already harder to bend, even more so at a higher action.


    Remember it's also tuned down a step and a half :) Otherwise I agree.

  • That will certainly help.


    He must have found a poundage chart and the tuning still is a higher poundage.


    I don't know how much higher the action will be at 6 lbs more (this unit must be torture for you right good metric folk!)
    but the strings should raise.


    It helps a bit to know the scale. My Music Man is easy peasy to bend because it's got such a short scale. But putting on heavier strings does raise the action even tuned down a bit and I have to do everything: Rod, Intonation, Prayers, etc, lol.

  • Highly recommend the StewMac Neck Relief gauge - particularly if you have more than a few guitars. It takes all the guesswork out, you can change your tuning or strings and see exactly how your neck relief has changed.


    -djh

  • Thanks for all the responses guys - after comparing some clip recordings, it's interesting how much warmer/darker the nickel wound set are in C# - the standard tuning set I use is Rotosound 10-46 which are nickel-on-steel strings. These have a lot more 'zing' and using the same preset from the roto's to the ernie balls sound like the gain has been dropped considerably. Hmm, might just keep the ol' faithful in standard e.

  • The effect of heavier strings on the neck might manifest themselves over an extended period of time, rather than immediately. Do periodic reinspections to ensure that the bow has not changed. If you're changing back to the regular strings you use, you should be good, though there might have been some movement. As with all guitar adjustments, a little goes a long way, especially with the truss rod. Just don't crank it or force it and you should be good. Also ensure that your allen key is always seated all the way in or you could strip the thread.

  • I wouldn't think 6lbs extra pull on 97.6lbs setup (an increase in tension of 6%) would shift the neck that much that it would be noticeable. As others have said you'll notice the increased thickness of the strings under your fingers more. But if it is and you need to tighten the truss rod (clockwise) just go in very small amounts. 1/16th of a full turn at a time, let it settle, check the relief etc.

  • this is the way i was taught to set the truss rod for shredding, alias the lowest possible action without deteriorating the string oscillation/volume


    - use the first string to do the comparison, not the sixth (wound string)
    - hold the first fret with your left hand and the LAST fret possible on your guitar (mine is at 22nd) with the right hand thumb
    - check the middle of the distance between the two frets (about 10th fret
    - there should be a tiny, very tiny action between the string and the fret and must be checked with your right hand pinky. pinky is used by rotating the right hand while holding the thumb at the leat fret.
    - if the action of the first string with the middle distance fret is too high the truss rod must be tighten. if no action is seeing, the truss must be loosen


    the mentioned explanation is ok at one condition: the frets must be setted perfectly by a luthier. this means that if one fret is not properly inserted in the fretboard, there is no way to set the truss rod in order to have the best set up


    hope this help


    michael

    "...why being satisfied with an amp, as great as it can be, while you can have them all?" michael mellner


    "Rock in Ecclesia" - new album on iTunes or Google music

  • one addition: the truss rod must be moved by 1/4 and less like FLGator said and waited at least 10 minutes of playing for the set to take place

    "...why being satisfied with an amp, as great as it can be, while you can have them all?" michael mellner


    "Rock in Ecclesia" - new album on iTunes or Google music

  • Contrary to Michael Mellner, i think it's crucial to use the thickest wound string for testing - it simply vibrates the most and thus needs the most space to oscillate.
    The method itself is solid, though - but you need to be very well acquainted with how much of a gap you like having between the fret and string. There are no right and wrong answers here and the 'proper' gap is guitar, string and player dependent.


    I adjust my truss-rod on pretty much a weekly basis. I do play a 7 string and with much, much thicker strings than you do so tension is more relevant but climate does move both metal and wood and if you're sensitive about your guitar's performance, it's as natural a procedure as tuning your strings.
    Just be careful, work in small increments and most of all, get very closely acquainted with your instrument to know how you like it and when it stops being that way.

    "But dignity is difficult to maintain
    stamina requires constant upkeep
    repetition is boring
    and you pay for grace."

  • Quitty: the checking is just the action between the string (which is the reference tool) and the middle point of the distance mentioned. in other words to check if a surface is curved we need a ruler. the fretboard is the curved surface...the ruler is the string.


    give this, there is no need of vibration but the need of the most precise and fine ruler.....and of the 6/7/8 strings the finest I know is the first string.


    I agree the gap is personal. of course if the gap is the lowest possible you will have the lowest action closing to the capo and the highest string action going to the bridge. but the first setting reduces more the buzzing than the second.


    but, I repeat, this is valid only if the frets are properly inserted, usually by the luthier at the moment of fretting the guitar


    michael


    p.s.: on my guitars, which are pretty much played hours and hours and with a certain strenght, I set the truss only once every years or so if needed (sometimes it has passed more than 1 year). it is true though that I always use the very same guitar gauge and brand (ernie ball hybrid slinky). why you need to adjust the truss rod every week? you have that much climate issue like humid? just asking......I'm curios. because since I play (43 years) I never heard of such frequency in setting the truss

    "...why being satisfied with an amp, as great as it can be, while you can have them all?" michael mellner


    "Rock in Ecclesia" - new album on iTunes or Google music

  • The gap is tested to make sure that there's enough room for the string to oscillate - so seeing as the greatest oscillation is that of the thickest string, that is what you want to test out. The smallest gap that works for your 0.009 will have dead notes on my 0.068. The smallest gap that works for my 0.068, however, will be fine with any string with less mass.


    As for the weekly set-up, i'm playing a 1-piece maple neck guitar with 7 strings, the thickest being a 0.068, as mentioned. That's significantly more tension than usual, and metal contracts and expands under temperature change. I'm also guessing i'd have more luck with a 5-piece neck, but alas, that's not what i have.
    A day with air conditioning is almost always followed by a truss rod adjustment the next - but that also has to do with the amount of recording i usually do and the fact that i'm a princess :)

    "But dignity is difficult to maintain
    stamina requires constant upkeep
    repetition is boring
    and you pay for grace."

  • Logically I agree that you should measure from the 6 th as it's the thickest string and oscillates the most. I'm not an expert though but if I set up the 1st string as low as possible, I find the 6th buzzes lots.