multiple assignment of one effect in one rig

Quote from ckemper

What you are asking for, interferes with the present concept.
The present concept allows for assigning multiple effects to a single button and toggle them from where they are. One effect could be on, the other off. Pressing the effect button will then swap the effects.
Your concept is about an effect scene. A certain state of effects is realized with the strike of a button. A different scene would be assigned to a second button.

If we realized both at the same time, a first button would alter a dedicated "toggle scene" of a second button.

I hope I could describe the problem in short words. Please consider it.
If you like, I give you an example.

An example of the alternative work flow, Mr CK.

Switch I has A and B (both in Off status when the Rig is recalled/ Press the button, and they both come On))
Switch II toggles C and D (C is On when the Rig is recalled - press the button, and C is turned Off, and D is turned On)
Switch III is X, MOD, Reverb, Delay (all four are in On Status when the Rig is recalled)
Switch IV is still available.

Within the present architecture, I have assigned all available slots to one of the stomps.

There could be a situation where you might want to combine slot D and the effects on Switch III when the state of Switch I is toggled to C on. This situation would take two footswitch presses. And let's say there's a time when you want to turn off A but not B, how would you do that?

Currently on my floorboard, I can make multiple combinations of effects and pull them up with a single press of a button. This is far more intuitive than having toggle capabilities, imho, since I can turn on whichever effects I want and if I jump to another stomp, it recalls an entirely different combination of effects. I can do this with five effects simultaneously, and I can easily call up a rig where each of those button presses has the maximum impact.

I like to look at the floorboard like a stomp box controller of sorts. In that sense, it would make sense to be able to recall a selection of stompboxes with a button press and instantly recall another configuration with another press. It's a cinch with my board, where it sends a 1 to all assigned stomps when a button is pressed, but if you step on it again, or press another button, it sends a 0 to all those stomps.

A simple demonstration with midi, Mr CK.

I would also like total control of effect scenes with Switches I-IV, as well as being able to have all the effect buttons assignable to pre or post as desired (even if the stomp buttons were still mono). I find that I don't use much in the stomp (pre) section and only having two other effect spots available in post (besides Delay & verb) is a bummer. Any effects used in the stomp section (besides a boost or overdrive) don't seem to do much. My old ADA midi pedal I was using had 10 buttons per bank so I had two banks of presets I used which were various Crunch/Ryhthm/Lead/Clean sounds with different effect scenes on each preset.

Yes, I used to have a Looper that also controlled my midi capable pedals (strymon timeline, eventide timefactor, nova drive and others) on my board. I got rid of all my pedals when I got my Kemper. I like it just as well (just a few effects I would like to have but otherwise it is amazing). I understand the alternate method for accessing effects. I guess the thinking is just to use a different rig if the states need to change more than just on/off for the effects. When the remote was first announced, I also assumed it would work the traditional way (scenes), but this way will work for me too. I like having the options to alternate between effects, etc but understand the present concept and why it was implemented this way (not totally, but then again I am not the developer!)

Talking about scenes:
We think in the world of digital guitar amps the rigs or slots are the scenes. They let you freely configure your effect settings. In addition they let you chose a whole different amp and cabinet per scene, if required.

Christoph,

Will we ever see an update giving the stomp section slots the option to be post instead of pre and programmable within each individual preset? That would make the effect section perfect for me.

Thank you for making such an awesome guitar processor!

Just to offer my different perspective, Hurricane: if I had to choose I'd much rather have single on/off switches for effects than IMHO a more complicated scene setup. It just works better with how my brain works and actually gives me less things to think about live, even if I have to click one more button to get to the same goal.

Just to say, it's not necessarily an improvement for every live guitarist if the choice is permanently one or the other way of programming the KPA.

Quote from Hurricane

You're right.
If we all had the same needs, the world would be much poorer !

Hehe, so true!

I guess I don't quite understand your example of using Performances. You wouldn't necessarily have to think in terms of songs, one Performance per song? It could just as well be a performance called "80s Ballad" or something with up to 5 different sounds in it, that you could reuse for different songs. So in your example, aren't you talking about having 2-5 different performances (you call them amp-sounds) that you can reuse?

I could be missing something! I just don't see the difference between that and having programmable scenes within a single rig. Is it the way it is programmed that would be the difference?

I have my live set up using 2 performance banks. One is called High Gain and the other is called Low Gain. I always use my rig profile for live performances, and here is the way I have both banks set up:

(Each bank of 5 uses the exact same OD & clean profiles but Bank 1 gain stages are for heavy distortion, Bank 2 is lower gain for Crunch style distortion)
Slot 1-OD with space & verb; Switch 1=Chorus/delay
Slot 2-OD with space & chorus/delay; Switch 2=Phase
Slot 3-OD (higher Gain) Solo with space & delay/verb; Swich 1=Octave
Slot 4-OD (higher gain) Solo with space & long delay/verb; Switch 1=Pitch Shifter
Slot 5-Clean with reverb; Switch 1=Chorus, Switch 2=Phase, Switch 3=Delay

I wouldn't ever consider using different profiles live for distortion sounds. Once your rig is set up for equal volumes throughout your patches and the channel EQ on the FOH mixing board is set, any profile changes you make (i.e. Mesa to Bogner to Marshall) will change your sound out front and it might not work with the existing FOH eq setting. My slots above would work better for me if I were able to set the Switches for scenes, like having Delay available with the Chorus and Phase without having to make an extra step on that as well. I would also like to have the Octave and Pitch Shifter available on Presets 3 & 4 but I can't since I use the "Space" effect on all my OD presets to give it that stereo effect in the PA. It only leaves my one post effect available. I tried the Octave effect in the pre stomp section and it doesn't sound as good. Offering the option for all the effects to be pre or post would solve this issue and the option to have scenes in the switches where the delay can be saved on more than one switch per preset would be what we are looking for.

I do agree that studio and live performances use the KPA in totally different ways and anything that could be done to help the live effect switching possibilities would be awesome!

Quote from Hurricane

Actually for all my songs I use One Performance (with 4 performance-slots = 4 rigs = 4 different amp-sounds (Clean-solo, crunch-rhythm, lead, clean-rhythm,)
If I could now have 4 effect scenes per performance-slot this would be 4 variations for each amp-sound ( totally 16 different sounds) and each of them reachable by maximum 2 switching-steps (performance-slot-number and effect-scene I to IIII) . For my needs this would be more than enough. And......

...when tweaking any amp-sound live on stageit is effective to every of it's 4 variations.

Aaah, I get it.

You kind of want one more dimension of switching than is possible today, applying the same effect scene to different base tones, I think?

That's way more different sounds than I use live, so I can understand if that could be useful to someone. Just not me. But hey, if the choice is there it doesn't hurt.

Choice is good

I understand the use of a performance, but it's the workflow around things that I would like to improve upon:

Let's say I have 2 Performances, Wet (Delay + Reverb Active) and Dry.

FX slots would be, for example:
A) Tube Screamer
B) Pitch Shifter
C) Wah
D) Harmonizer
X) Boost
MOD) Air Chorus

Just hypothetical. You could naturally programme different slots for each configuration. That's six effects for each wet and dry performance.
And for each of the five slots, I would have:
Clean
Distortion
Another Distortion
Another DIstortion
Another Distortion

Now let's take distortion No. 1. If we could switch in and out four effects simultaneously (or five) using the four buttons on the Remote, I would be able to have combinations of:

I) Tube Screamer and Wah with Air Chorus
II) Tube Screamer and Pitch Shifter (Now let's assume wah and air chorus are switchable in two states and tube screamer is one button on the Remote. Two stomps to recall this state).
III) Tube Screamer, Harmonizer, Boost, Air Chorus (Let's assume the tube screamer is on. I can't call up the air chorus without bring in the wah. Also, air chorus has already been assigned once)
IV) Wah, Boost (Again, no wah without air chorus)

And I can apply these across multiple distortions, do note that on a different rig you could have a similar tone but entirely different settings for FX.

Just a hypothetical example. While performances is a good way to sort rigs, it makes sense to be able to recall multiple combinations of effects much like a pedal board. I could set up FX paths across multiple rigs, plenty of slots if you aren't planning on EQing the signal and stuff.

In terms of performance workflow, five is better than 40. I'd like to think of a performance as more than just something I use on stage, I'd like to be able to utilise it as a song-writing tool as well. Being able to programme any combination of FX would be a big improvement in that regard, I like to just stomp and pull up stuff in one click. No fuss about what combination I'd like to do this in. I'd assume that if I'm using a performance, I should be able to recall FX however I'd like, after all, what use are the four buttons I-IV if I'm overly performance oriented. I like to just screw around sometime and the existing methodology doesn't accommodate that without a lot of close cosying up to my Kemper.

I think it would work well even on stage. Suppose I have performances sorted in terms of Clean, Wet Clean, Distorted, Distorted Wet, Strange FX. Going up song by song as you increase performances. It's one button press all the way with that logic. But suppose I was jamming with Steve Vai on stage and he breaks out his whammy and I have to sort through a maze of performances in order to pull up my pitch shifter rig. In that kind of scenario, I'd like to go to my "Jammin'"" rig that would have a smorgasboard of FX like I detailed in the first scenario. This would also be handy in a jam, as opposed to always focusing on the stage.

There are so many performances any way. I have a lot of pedals and things in my Kemper. Theoretically, I would run out of performances and slots before I run out of combinations of FX and settings.

In the end, it would make sense to be able to do things away from the Kemper when programming. I hope there's an update that allows you to assign FX combinations to the Remote from away from the Remote. It would be extremely difficult to carry the Remote all that distance to the Kemper in order to assign an FX.

Pardon me for any examples, guys. Thanks for giving us a patient hearing, Mr CK.

Since these ideas have been described as fundamentally different from the current design, they would likely require a long term implementation plan. So, maybe this kind of FX assignment will eventually come.

My preference for shorter term changes would be for things like Stomp Delay, Stomp Reverb, more "Action and Freeze" assignments, etc

Quote from paults

Since these ideas have been described as fundamentally different from the current design, they would likely require a long term implementation plan. So, maybe this kind of FX assignment will eventually come.

My preference for shorter term changes would be for things like Stomp Delay, Stomp Reverb, more "Action and Freeze" assignments, etc

+1.

I don't have my remote yet so I may be missing a deeper point. And I agree that our differences are all good :). but for me.....

I'd set one performance per song. That gives you 5 'scenes' per song which avoid tap dancing and you can then turn individual fx on and off on each. I can't think of anything I'd be capable of playing that would need more but then again I'm struggling to learn the mystical 4th chord

The things to make this approach easier would be an editor to name / sort performances.

Agree also with with previous points about stomp delays and stomp reverbs. And as CK is reading this thread I'll mention 'spring reverb please'

Quote from Gary_W

I don't have my remote yet so I may be missing a deeper point. And I agree that our differences are all good :). but for me.....

I'd set one performance per song. That gives you 5 'scenes' per song which avoid tap dancing and you can then turn individual fx on and off on each. I can't think of anything I'd be capable of playing that would need more but then again I'm struggling to learn the mystical 4th chord

The things to make this approach easier would be an editor to name / sort performances.

Agree also with with previous points about stomp delays and stomp reverbs. And as CK is reading this thread I'll mention 'spring reverb please'

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What confuses me is how do you guys get away with loading a performance bank for each song? My band plays over 100 songs, approx 40 songs a night and the setlist changes each night and sometimes it changes on the fly. I could have a 4 count by the drummer to try and find a song that is buried somewhere in the performance slots, that's just not realistic for a live band.

Quote from drandall

What confuses me is how do you guys get away with loading a performance bank for each song? My band plays over 100 songs, approx 40 songs a night and the setlist changes each night and sometimes it changes on the fly. I could have a 4 count by the drummer to try and find a song that is buried somewhere in the performance slots, that's just not realistic for a live band.

I have the same issue as you do, lots of different songs, set list always changes, I need several 'do-it-all' presets so I don't have to step around all over the place. I guess I could just re-arrange the slots per performance, but it is a lot of work.