daw stuff help needed.

Hi Roadrunner,

I think you're correct in what you say about DAW's in terms of the '10 different answers' It is sooooo personal. They're all pretty good these days from what I can make out and it's really down to budget and aspirations.

I had an early fling with Cakewalk and Cubase (but I'm talking a long, long time ago and have forgotten everything I knew!). For the last few years I've used Reaper and, around a year ago, I switched over to Studio 1.

For my personal preferences, Studio 1 is a better DAW. This is not me in any way saying Reaper is bad - it's incredibly powerful, very cheap and has constant updates / a big community. However, Studio 1 just made more sense to my brain! There is a lot of depth there for sure BUT the very basics of operating the thing are a little simpler than Reaper IMO and the way it thinks seems more logical. If you want to, for instance, put a particular effect on a particular track then it is literally drag and drop. You can, of course, do exactly the same operation in any DAW - it's just how simple it is to achieve. And that's basically the thing with Studio 1 - it seems to have been built with 'ease of use' as a primary design element as opposed to an afterthought. Reaper probably has more routing options but man alive it had the potential to fry the old brain. Or my old brain anyway!

Do note that there are several versions of Studio 1. I've got the Pro version..... Do be careful as I believe one of the lesser versions limits the ability to use plugins and trust me - you'll want to

The good news is you can try Reaper for free then it's a cheap licence after 30 days. Studio 1 Free is indeed free but very limited - it does, however, allow you to use the Pro version unlimited for 30 days before it reverts to the 'free' licence so you can have a good go and see if it suits you.

As to interfaces..... I personally like using SPDIF with the Kemper. All you have to do is ensure the Kemper is allowed to be the 'Master' for the SPDIF clock and then all will be well..... You can pretty much forget about level setting as it'll be spot on as it is. If you're going in to an analogue input, you've obviously got to set that (not a disaster of course but I like it simple) and from a theoretical point of view the Kemper will give better quality via SPDIF. Whether you'd be able to tell or not is another matter!! I've got a Focusrite Firewire interface right now and I like it a lot. I had a Focusrite before this too and with both, I've found them stable / reliable / decent quality. I've also found the UK based tech support to be very good on the rare occasions I've needed it.

Good luck

At least you can try them before you buy, Studio One and Reaper.

I've used Reaper for a long time and it's pretty fun to use. Easy to cut, mix, match, paste. Each track is anything you want it to be without pre-defining it.

But the bottom line is, they all are quite powerful and good. The two things of note, if you use MIDI heavily, there are better DAW's than either of these. If not, then its more to do with how much time YOU put into using them that makes them "good".

Win or Mac?
On Mac the best recommendation would be Logic X, which is best bang forthe buck ever.
I have Licenses for Logic X, Studio One V2 Pro and Ableton Live Suite.
I like Logic best for tracking and classical composing, followed by Studio One. Ableton Live is very good for loop based composing and throwing ideas around. Nowadays I don't use it as much as I used to though.
While Reaper is very powerful, it has always come out '2nd best' to me. It's a bit awkward to use IMO.
My Cubase days are long over. I also don't like its dongle protection.

I did recently switch to Logix Pro X for Mac. I use Reaper on PC.
If I did go totally Mac I'd stick with Logic Pro X. It's powerful but it's also fun.

The appeal of Reaper for many is it's low cost (if you aren't professional) an easy track definition and routing. For example, drop MIDI, it's MIDI. It figures out what you dropped. Click cntr-s and snip, grab, move around, stretch, contract, etc, the manipulation functions are easy and fast to work with and for me have been slower in other daws. Reaper is getting quite complex since they continually develop it into a powerful monster. When I first got Reaper it was way more fun that other PC DAW's but lately less so. Has huge number of skins so it can look like anything and be programmed to do anything you want. This turns some off.

I've used:
Pro Tools 10, 11 (a bit cryptic to get used to cause of legacy ways of doing things)
Ableton live (great for live production, loops, but is entirely original and different than any other DAW)
FL Studio (Pc only until recently and then through Wine on Mac, so slower,etc, but very loop based. Good for electronic and drum creation)
Sony Acid Pro (I love this for drum loop creation, but now I use VI's so I don't use this anymore)

It's been too long since I last used Sternberg's Cubase to comment on what it does now.

In terms of support, you normally pay a whopping upgrade for new updates with many DAWS. Reaper does a 2 version license and continually develops theirs, but it is getting quite complex. Logic Pro X is frustrating since they don't let you try it, rarely update it and when they do it used to be expensive, but is only $200 now and is a great program and fun to use. Studio One is gaining a lot of attention but it doesn't stand out to me as any better/different than the rest of the pack. Just a new kid on the block.

I use Studio One and prior to getting my Kemper I had also been convinced that SPDIF was the only/best way to record (just from what I had read). I have personally found that going mains out from Kemper with XLR's is easier and gives a great result. I don't know if using SPDIF results in superior sound quality or not but I have to say that to my ears going (Kemper) mains out>line input sounds pretty damn good.

Quote from Ingolf

I also don't like its dongle protection.

Uh huh huh...

Anyway, Logic is a great program especially if you'd like to have virtual instruments. I use it myself and I think it's great. (I know you're on a PC, but for the benefit of others browsing the thread).

Generally, get a DAW and stick with it. No matter what you choose, some stuff will be annoying and some stuff will be great. If you don't learn the ins and outs, you'll never get comfortable with it, and that goes for everything. Some daws will most likely have more appeal to some people, but in general, DAW choice won't be TOO much of a hindrance if you put in some hours. Just a matter of tolerance :-). Me, having more money than sense, have bought studio one, logic and reaper, and work mainly in logic.

Studio one can be a good choice because it is cross-platform - another aspect to consider.

Used a few different DAW's and have been very happy with Reaper for the last few years. Best bang for buck by a huge margin imo.

Personally I dont use SPDIF as the xlr outs sound great. When I did run the output SPDIF, it also sounded great. Just easier in my head (routing wise) to keep all my incoming channels analog it seems.

If your not going to go mad and try to record too many mics. instruments etc all at once, I wouldnt spend a fortune on a fancy interface. I had a simple little Focusrite Saffire that did the job for home recording for many years (until it started losing pc connection intermittantly). I stepped up to an RME Fireface as a replacement (substantially more $) as my needs changed, but a simple interface would still get the job done for most things i'm doing at home.

Hope it helps!

I use Cubase 8 and it's a lot of DAW for the price, probably the most advanced there is for stuff like midi, what with things like VST3 plugins and things. The included plugins are great and I find the workflow quite easy, they came out with a bunch of things like virtual faders in 8 that really make a lot of sense.

It's quite stable with my Fireface 800, but I bet most hardware would sync up well with it. But if you like Studio One, I'd say go for it, different strokes for different folks. But Cubase would probably have a lot more under the hood as a more mature DAW. At the same time, I hardly use most of the stuff in there, really got to get down to doing that someday when I have the time!

If you like a straightforward, one-window interface have a look at Tracktion, which has been acquired back by its creator and is getting more and more interesting
There are lots of short tutorials on their site\YT channel that show its special features. It's worth a try.

Hi! I used to use Reaper to record my band and tracking guitar, but since i got Reason 7 i haven`t used Reaper at all.

I find the built in instruments and effects of Reason far more easy to tweak and i don`t have to bother with vst`s and 3rd part stuff. You can download some racks to Reason as well, but i haven't found the reason to:P

It is in my opinion one of the easiest daws to use and without much hassle. I now record my band in Reason and if there has been no complaint by my bandmembers.

Interface wise Focusrite seems to get a lot of love.

Quote from roadrunner

Thanks for all your input SqWark, Micheal_dk, greenblob, nightlite, viabcroce and Xander. I really appreciate all your thoughts on the subject. i am sure all the daw recommendations you have given here are excellent, but I can only try to get my head around one especially as a novice. Why presonus over everthing else? I've no idea, maybe the colour box it comes in . I was looking for reasons not to get studio one. db9021 suggested there are better midi options for a daw. I haven't used midi and can't see myself ever getting overly complicated with it. Maybe db9021 can have a 'I told you' moment sometime in the future? Time will tell . nightlight touched on a more powerful and mature daw. How many people truly plumb the depths of their daw and use or indeed know all of it? From what I understand they are all pretty awesome these days, just what floats your boat for personal choice and until you know one fairly well you, or me in this case, cannot really judge one against another.
The choice of interface is really bugging me. Gary_W likes s/pdif, SqWark and greenblob are happy without it. Focusrite seems the popular shout and I guess with good reason. I'm between getting a real basic one for £70ish as suggested by greenblob, or one with midi and s/pdif which rolls in round £200ish. if the basic one does it great, but if I find myself needing the expanded options I'm gonna be real pissed about wasting £70ish. Any thoughts on this would be be greatly welcomed.
Many thanks again for all your input and cheers for reading.

As far as the interface, going for a better one now will obviate the need to upload later. Sure, you record by yourself now, but what about if you want to jam with friends, or record a live performance somewhere down the line? Also, the better interfaces also offer reduced latency while monitoring and recording, so that's something to keep in mind. I'd go for the Focusrite 6i6 you indicated you were leaning toward earlier in the thread -- plenty of I/O and room to grow in your recording studio.

Nothing wrong with Studio One.
The programming team is based in Hamburg, mainly consisting of ex- Steinberg Cubase programmers (Steinberg also being based in Hamburg).
Good heritage!

Hi roadrunner, I have not read all the posts.. only OP.. but would like to say briefly:

I "vote" for STUDIO ONE v.2.. I was an absolute beginner when I started to try some DAWs and found Studio One extremely interesting.. btw, they give you the basic version for life free of charge.. but subsequently I bought the full version..

I use Roland Octa capture and reamping together with SO2 is super easy and works super! the work in SO2 is lightning fast and highly recommend you (if complete beginner in DAW stuff) instead of reading SO2 manual to buy video manual from ww.groove3.com - Studio One 2 explained

this has literally saved my life, saved hours and hours of time and tons of energy.. I hate to read 300 pages manuals.. I tried it but..

wish you Good luck!

I'd recommend an interface with an spdif in and out. Makes re-amping a breeze As well as freeing up other ins and outs.

You seem to be disposed toward budget-consciousness - I applaud that. Never buy more than you need (or have reason to believe you WILL need in the near future). You can buy a whole studio building to be "future proof", or you can buy the cheapest of the cheap. The answer is obviously in between, and much closer to the latter option, based on what I get from you first post.

I am basing this off of what you say about having decided to plunge into the world of recording. My interpretation of this is that you are a rank novice at this point :-D. Please don't take offense, I'm not much farther than you in that regard - I've been doing it for many years on a hobby level, but the number of hours I've spent on actually honing my craft are not that many. I've recorded a lot, and made a bunch of music. I've read and listened to podcasts etc. I take into account in all this how far my skills have advanced compared to how limited I am by my equipment (essentially "NOT limited").

First off, Studio one is a good idea, there are several "layers", so you can upgrade as needed.

NO, spdif is NOT essential, but for reamping stuff it's a breeze. I am glad my interface has it. Now, reamping can be a crutch that shouldn't be relied too much upon, and it can also be a real asset when finding tones - or maybe more relevant, when learning how playing with a certain profile translates into a full recording with layers of that profile, drums, bass etc (oops, so maybe that profile WASN'T the greatest choice for RECORDING....). It can also tie you down in open ends - never moving closer to the end goal, because "You can always change it later" and "maybe I should try a different profile..."... Also keep in mind that you can reamp without spdif, which is ALSO (relatively) easy with the kemper, although not quite as easy.
If I were to buy again, i'd definitely choose the interface with spdif, but I am not constrained by the finances involved in that feature decision at this point.

If you're just getting started, and you're not a magical unicorn with uncanny abilities in recording, mixing etc already, then you have bigger problems than quality of converters and preamps etc; namely your abilities at this point ;-). I'd say cut your teeth on an interface of moderate quality first - don't spend more money than necessary (again, if finances are an issue). If you stick with the new "hobby" you can always upgrade. That's my philosophy (when giving advice - I'm not necessarily the greatest at following my own advice, mind you).

You say the scarlett 6i6 is within your budget range. I have the saffire 24 Pro, which has a similar number of inputs and outputs. I've never used that many at a time, but I've been really happy with it. The 6i6 seems to be a great choice.

However, keep in mind that you will probably want to have a pair of monitors to go with it sooner rather than later - for mixing, and for evaluating tones while recording too. So this is where the budget comes in. In my opinion I would get decent but cheap monitors. M-audio BX5's are what I use, and I've been perfectly happy with these as well. If I were to do it even semi-professionally, I might upgrade those. For my own recordings? No - only to satisfy GAS. Or later, when my abilities are closer to being limited by the gear. Yes, gear CAN hold you back, and better gear CAN accelerate your learning also (!), but let's keep it real - you're only now beginning to learn, right?

So - if you want some monitors to go with your home studio (and you probably do - and you also probably want at least SOME room treatment too, but that's for later), then maybe you want to cut back on the expenses for the interface. It sounded like you arrived at those two suggested interfaces at least partly based on the availability spdif, and you ask if it is crucial to recording. My answer is a resounding NO. You can just as well record via the line-ins of your interface. Some people will argue that you get two AD/DA conversions that way, but who cares. That will have minuscule effect on the result compared to all the other factors. Loads of other gear used in professional studios have the same "problem", so why should you worry? yeah, they might have better converters - but they have clients paying for those converters. It's funny how often people who make money on studio work will say "you need such and such to record, or else the sound will suck" to people who are just starting out - but can bet you if they are moderately successful at their business, they base their purchases on what added profits those purchases can make them (save time, pulling in bigger and better gigs, etc).

Where the heck was I going with this???

I guess the bottom line is, if you have the money to spend, go wild. If you're on a budget - try to stick to that budget. And consider the monitors as well