Solved: Send return loop is late switching on. Qiuck fix needed.

    Since i play in MANY different constellations (different bands, substitute gigs, theater gigs, sessions etc etc) i always have an attenuator patched in on my lead sounds. I have this (and have had the last 15 years) because different bands, acoustic environments, soundguys, musical directors means different needs for lead rig volumes. It's not a programmable attenuator. It just has a volume knob for the attenuation so it just sits there. It has worked flawlessly in previous rigs where it has been sitting in my old loopswitching system. So i know it is not the attenuator playing games. And besides i can replicate the result with my mxr booster pedal in the send return anyway.


    See the picture. The loop (and hence the attenuator) comes on late causing a burst in volume.


    Now i have a theater gig coming up. It is a gig that is as big as they get in Denmark so i can't have the director/conductor complaining. That is one of those things that could mean that i do not get the gig next time.[Blocked Image: https://scontent-arn2-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xpt1/t31.0-8/11223730_10152901659081577_759148893269118778_o.jpg]

    And in the end, the love you take is equal to the love you make.

    Well, no response so far - here's my only thought: I'd something else in the loop - a delay / chorus / distortion - whatever - just to rule out that it's really not the attenuator that causes the problem.

    Ahh... Have you tried Performance Mode? The switching is faster than in Browse Mode (instantaneous, as far as I can tell here). Maybe you could just set up a single performance for testing?


    (Tillykke med det! Fedt job! :) )

    When you trigger the FX Loop, does it instantly illuminate the soft key on the front of the amp? Or is there a delay to that as well? If you just press the button on the front panel, is the light instantly engaged as well as the attenuator or boost?


    If there is no delay to the light's illumination and it doesn't matter if you press the soft key on the front of the amp or not, then it sounds like a problem with a relay not firing fast enough. You'd need to contact support. You might also want to try switching from FX Mono to FX Distortion to see if that makes a difference at all.


    If there is a delay when you trigger it from your controller, but not from when you press the button on the front panel, it may be that your MIDI controller isn't sending messages fast enough or is sending too many messages. I'd first try to replace the MIDI cable to see if it has a short (or repair it yourself if you know how). If that's not the culprit, dive into your MIDI settings on your controller (if there are any) and see if you can simply send a simple CC message only. Some controllers send, when triggering a preset, a PC message (hey, change the slot/rig/preset), as well as numerous CC messages (turn X effect on, turn Mod effect off, etc.) and, sometimes, even SysEx messages (system exclusive messages - they are longer, contain more data, and, by nature, slow). If you can turn SysEx off (if that's an option on your controller), that might be the key.


    What controller are you using at the moment?

    Guitars: Parker Fly Mojo Flame, Ibanez RG7620 7-string, Legator Ninja 8-string, Fender Strat & Tele, Breedlove Pro C25
    Pedalboard: Templeboards Trio 43, Mission VM-1, Morley Bad Horsie, RJM Mini Effect Gizmo, 6 Degrees FX Sally Drive, Foxpedals The City, Addrock Ol' Yeller, RJM MMGT/22, Mission RJM EP-1, Strymon Timeline + BigSky
    Stack: Furman PL-Plus C, Kemper Rack

    I haven't. But since i have aprox 30 sounds that i use regularly i don't think performance mode would be for me. I would need to setup performances for 200 songs. And some of these gigs are without setlists.....

    And in the end, the love you take is equal to the love you make.

    Oh, you might could try backing up and restoring the firmware. There might be a glitch somewhere. You can also hold the Rig button when booting up the Kemper to fix any rigs that might have bad data. Back up first though. I can't emphasize backing up enough.

    Guitars: Parker Fly Mojo Flame, Ibanez RG7620 7-string, Legator Ninja 8-string, Fender Strat & Tele, Breedlove Pro C25
    Pedalboard: Templeboards Trio 43, Mission VM-1, Morley Bad Horsie, RJM Mini Effect Gizmo, 6 Degrees FX Sally Drive, Foxpedals The City, Addrock Ol' Yeller, RJM MMGT/22, Mission RJM EP-1, Strymon Timeline + BigSky
    Stack: Furman PL-Plus C, Kemper Rack

    Quote from Kim_Olesen

    I haven't. But since i have aprox 30 sounds that i use regularly i don't think performance mode would be for me. I would need to setup performances for 200 songs. And some of these gigs are without setlists.....


    The beauty of performance mode is you don't have to use it on a song-by-song basis. You can group your sounds together in any way you'd like. Think of it as a different way of accessing your rigs.


    For instance, I use one performance as my Vox profiles. Some have effects, some don't. My next performance is Matchless and Morgan profiles. And so on and so forth.

    Guitars: Parker Fly Mojo Flame, Ibanez RG7620 7-string, Legator Ninja 8-string, Fender Strat & Tele, Breedlove Pro C25
    Pedalboard: Templeboards Trio 43, Mission VM-1, Morley Bad Horsie, RJM Mini Effect Gizmo, 6 Degrees FX Sally Drive, Foxpedals The City, Addrock Ol' Yeller, RJM MMGT/22, Mission RJM EP-1, Strymon Timeline + BigSky
    Stack: Furman PL-Plus C, Kemper Rack

    Like 1


    I can replicate this with ONLY program changes coming from my DAW. So it is NOT the foot controller. (It's a roland fc-200 btw)


    There are no relays in the Kemper to my knowledge. I could ofcourse be wrong there.


    I am using the "Loop Distortion" so i am sure there wont be any "mixing it with the direct sound" problems.


    The attenuator has no on off mode. The box is always on, so it can't be the attenuator box being late.

    And in the end, the love you take is equal to the love you make.

    Quote from Kim_Olesen

    No. Nothing else patched in during this test.


    That's not what I meant. Just to test the loop function in the KPA and whether it is delayed (which would be odd behaviour) PUT something else in the loop - a different piece of equipment you have and see whether the looper is also delayed in this scenrio. If that is the case then there's something wrong. If it is not, the problem lies within the attenuator.

    Quote from joerch

    That's not what I meant. Just to test the loop function in the KPA and whether it is delayed (which would be odd behaviour) PUT something else in the loop - a different piece of equipment you have and see whether the looper is also delayed in this scenrio. If that is the case then there's something wrong. If it is not, the problem lies within the attenuator.


    As i wrote in my initial post i already did. I tried with my mxr boster and could replicate the result. With one difference ofcourse. When the loop swotched on the sound got louder (since attenuators and boosters does the opposite of another)

    And in the end, the love you take is equal to the love you make.

    Quote from sambrox

    I still think you should try and test it with Performance Mode. If anything, it might exclude there being any relay error (if there's an improvement in switching time).


    I don't think there are any mechanical relays in the Kemper. It'd be all software. I will see if i can get my head around performance mode, but it is not the way for me generally. But just to test if this is only in browse mode is a good thing that i'll do ofcourse.

    And in the end, the love you take is equal to the love you make.

    Quote from paults

    Which Slot has the Loop? Have you tried Loop Mono instead of Loop Distortion?


    Yes, support just asked me to check this. And i just did the ultimate test. Connected the input and the output of the loop with one cable. The volume burst as shown in the picture STILL happens. So it's not the loop switching late on. It must be coding error in the loop section.

    And in the end, the love you take is equal to the love you make.

    Quote from Kim_Olesen

    Yes, support just asked me to check this. And i just did the ultimate test. Connected the input and the output of the loop with one cable. The volume burst as shown in the picture STILL happens. So it's not the loop switching late on. It must be coding error in the loop section.

    Now to test in a performance ;)

    Fantastic cooporation from Kemper support. Thanks guys :) This is a problem that happens if direct out is set to master mono. If it is set to off (can only be done on a rig that doesn't have loop enabled) the send return works as expected :)


    Problem solved, and i am happy.

    And in the end, the love you take is equal to the love you make.

    Like 2