How loud is your reference amp when profiling?

    Are you all cranking these amps up to full on stage/arena volume? My challenge is not having a room that will totally deaden the amp so I hear it bleeding with the sounds coming out of my monitors.


    kind of frustrating but when doing 50/100 watt tube Amos, you gotta get them cooking for that right sound.


    i do have an attenuators but I assume the resulting profile just wouldn't have the same punch to it

    If the sound you want from the amp only comes when the amp is loud, yes, the amp needs to be loud. Attenuators will change the sound of the amp.


    You *might* be able to use a 1-12" isolation cabinet instead of a 4-12. I used to get very good results recording with one of those, but sold it years ago, when technology provided alternatives to doing that.


    Or, book a little studio time. Get the profiles you need, quick and easy :)

    I don't know this to be fact, but I have done profiles with the same preamp gain value and the master volume (power amp) at moderate levels and very high and found the profiles to be the same outcome. I adjust the amp properties in the profile (power sag? I forget which value at this moment) to add more power amp feel. I've done two amps as such and found this to be the case. Moving forward I just adjust the preamp gain and change the master volume proportionally keeping the total amp volume at about the same with the various amp settings to profile....ie MV8G4, MV3G9 as an example. Maybe someone else can confirm their findings.

    "More Guitar in the Monitors" :thumbup:

    Quote from Aussiejoe

    something like this could work
    http://www.two-notes.com/en/hardware/torpedo-studio/


    Hi Aussiejoe,


    Keep in mind, JerEvil's post is related to Profiling. When it comes to making a Profile, a Torpedo Studio Loadbox is exactly the kind of thing you would NOT want to have in between the amp and mic'd cabinet, IMHO. Yes, I realize that the Torpedo Studio can act as an attenuator, but you still wouldn't want that connected/engaged when making a Profile.


    In any event, the primary function of the Torpedo Studio (besides acting as a digital loadbox), is to eliminate the need for mic'ing a physical guitar cabinet. This is completely the opposite of what occurs when a studio profile is made with the Kemper.

    I am not a big fan of poweramp distortion and i also dislike the way attentuators change the sound. I profile at very moderate volumes, at something between room volume a (soft) rehearsal volume. You will need to use a certain minimal volume to bring the speakers to their working level. But above that i only get results that may sound a little different but not necessarily better. If the amp bleed from the live room severly affects the monitoring situation in the monitoring room i would definitely back up the volume.

    I profile amps at whatever volume is needed to get the best clarity & punch out of them. - normal you have to hit the power-section hard before you get some of the good juice. and often need to leave the amp on for a good few hours before hand.. some amps are painfully loud to get that "sweet thang" (poweramp/preamp distortion) - and some you can have the luxury of a GOOD master volume. but thats real easy to say when I have a live room to do that.. for those that don't its hard. but..


    Don't use Power attenuates, they suck the dynamics out of any amp, they are good for practicing at home, but never to be recorded with.


    Your not in a ideal situation really, its always best to have the amp in a different room otherwise it will cause many monitoring problems..
    Currently if your amp is loud, you wont be able to monitor the mic source correctly, - can you move the amp to a differt room perhaps?


    Or you can look into a ISO box or something.


    It can still be done your way, but most of it will be "micing blind" and pressing the profile button and hoping it turns out good

    Yeah, the cab is actually in a closet in my recording room. A good bit of the sound is deadened, actually quite a bit but there is still a little bleed that comes out. I am going to try something obvious and turn the cab facing the back wall instead of the door. It will still be a little "poke and hope" but it may be a bit better of a solution. Worst case scenario I'll just book a few hours if studio time where I would have access to some more mic options as well.

    I resend my comment. I just tried a 100 watt OTS with all settings identical. One profile with MV at 4 and one with MV at 8. The gain changed from 6.3 to 7.7 and the definition went from 3.0 to 3.5. Not sure what all was really changed because when I adjust the MV 8 settings to the MV 4 settings the profiles are the same. I recalled the process on my AD30 but it was a while ago and several firmware updates. Other than that I have no excuse for my comments....

    "More Guitar in the Monitors" :thumbup:

    Edited once, last by bshaw92 ().

    Quote from bshaw92

    I resend my comment. I just tried a 100 watt OTS with all settings identical. One profile with MV at 4 and one with MV at 8. The gain changed from 6.3 to 7.7 and the definition went from 3.0 to 3.5. Not sure what all was really changed because when I adjust the MV 8 settings to the MV 4 settings the profiles are the same. I recalled the process on my AD30 but it was a while ago and several firmware updates. Other than that I have no excuse for my comments....

    interesting. Any chance you could record a clip of each to see if they sound noticeably different?


    i just ordered a new mixer this week which will be nice for getting multiple mics down to one out into the Kemper. More experimental for me at this point as I really love the profiles Tim Owens helped me with of my Splawn rig

    Opinions on ISO boxes?
    Since quite a while i am thinking of getting one of these: http://www.grossmann-audio.de/
    Unfortunately this model isn't available in shops, so i can't test it before buying (i.e. reduction of volume, sound).
    I know that there are some profiles on the Rig Exchange created with this ISO box, but they are not really what i'm looking for (not necessarily because of the ISO box).

    Most isolation cabs produce a very boxy and nasal sound due to their limited inner dimensions. The Grossmann seems to be quite good though. There is some comparison in german language available:
    http://www.bonedo.de/artikel/e…arathon-iso-cabinets.html


    If you have no other possibilities of profiling with normal volume levels, this might be the only way to go. If possible, i would always prefer a traditional setup.

    I have done a few tests with my amps, with one amp there is hardly any difference in tone until I get to about 9 on the master volume, on another amp the tone starts changing at about 3 on the master volume. So I would say that each amp will be different in this regard.


    If you are making DA profiles you might look at getting a good reactive load. I have a home made reactive load that I modeled after my Legacy 412 cab with V30's and it's really close, when I did an A/B test recording I could hear a very slight difference but it's so close that I couldn't tell any difference without doing the test recording. And it is really nice making profiles with zero room noise :)


    If you want to make studio profiles, get something like a Torpedo CAB, make an IR of your cab and then use the reactive load and the Torpedo CAB for totally quiet profiling. I've messed around with this but I haven't decided if it works as good as simply profiling with a speaker cab and mic, but it is a lot more fun because unless you have a really isolated room for the speaker cab you will still hear it while comparing the profile to the amp and that really messes with your ears.

    Quote from timowens

    I have done a few tests with my amps, with one amp there is hardly any difference in tone until I get to about 9 on the master volume, on another amp the tone starts changing at about 3 on the master volume. So I would say that each amp will be different in this regard.


    If you are making DA profiles you might look at getting a good reactive load. I have a home made reactive load that I modeled after my Legacy 412 cab with V30's and it's really close, when I did an A/B test recording I could hear a very slight difference but it's so close that I couldn't tell any difference without doing the test recording. And it is really nice making profiles with zero room noise :)


    If you want to make studio profiles, get something like a Torpedo CAB, make an IR of your cab and then use the reactive load and the Torpedo CAB for totally quiet profiling. I've messed around with this but I haven't decided if it works as good as simply profiling with a speaker cab and mic, but it is a lot more fun because unless you have a really isolated room for the speaker cab you will still hear it while comparing the profile to the amp and that really messes with your ears.

    I think I am just going to deal with having the bit of noise bleed through. I am pretty happy with the profile I made and figure, worst case scenario, I will get the mic's set up, do some tracks into Logic and check placement. If I like that tone, I'll take the mic's out of my interface and sum them through my mixer. I am pretty sure Andy (TAF) mentioned the idea of tracking the amp, then the profile to hear how close they sound.

    The last profile I made was of my Marshall 100w Vintage Modern head/4X12 cab. That particular amp doesn't sound very good until it is fairly loud, but it then hits an incredible sweet spot. I was able to profile it in that sweet spot and can now use that tone in any volume situation. In a sense the amp's tone gets far more use now as I do not have any gigs where I can use the VM in the sweet spot as the volume is too high.


    So if your amp sounds the way you want it to at a specific volume, it should be profiled at that volume.