Drum Plugins for Recording with the Kemper

  • Hi fellow Kemper users,


    I just have a quick question as I've just watched a couple of Kemper videos: any recommendations for a free/ budget drum plugin for recording? I'm using Garage Band and like the Drummer feature but what other options do you recommend (MacOs, GarageBand and Reaper available).


    Cheers, Andy

  • Well, what are you looking for that Drummer isn't giving you?


    This is essential information, otherwise we'll all just recommend what we ourselves happen to have in our plugin folder ;)


    Exactly. Like I said before, if you already like drummer it would be logical (ha!) to buy Logic X with its hugely expanded drummer capabilities.

  • TL;DR - EZ Drummer is your best bet. And get Logic X.


    I find the drummer feature limiting tonally. Especially if I'm working on a progressive metal track. But, for me, I can coax a good "base" sound by doing the following (at least in Logic, I'm not sure how much of this actually applies to Garageband, and how much of it is in the same place):


    1. Lay down a track you wish to be "followed" by the kick/snare. This is often the bassline, but might be the rhythm part. It should be choppy. You can always take an additional take playing nothing but palm muted notes or by playing staccato, and then mute it in the mix, if you're having problems with it "catching" your groove. Obviously, you should be playing to the metronome/click, otherwise it's just not gonna work.
    2. Mess around with non-standard drums. The rock kit is your best bet (though not great) for anything metal/heavy rock, but try the funk kit/drummer out, for instance.
    3. EQ everything. For simple EQing, hit "b" on your keyboard (at least within Logic, not sure about Garageband), and you can adjust the mix of each piece, compression, EQ, room mics, etc. Alternatively, if you right-click (control-click) a drummer region, you can go to Convert > Convert to MIDI Region, and you'll be able to modify it within the piano roll and hyper editor (again, this should be possible within Garageband but I'm not positive). Manual entry of MIDI data is tedious and time consuming, but you'll get exactly what you want. Use MIDI humanization to make it sound more real.
    4. Want a fill? Create a new drummer region for a measure or so where you want a fill and max out the fill dial. Play around with the complex/simple and loud/quiet panel to find something that works within the context of the rest of the drum parts.


    Unfortunately, there's no direct way to split up the individual pieces of the drummer plugin (even in Logic), so you gotta deal with what you have.


    As far as external drum plugins, I've opted for Superior Drummer. I actually have spent the last couple months trying out every demo I can get my hands on. EZ is also really, really good, and one of the most inexpensive out there, but I wanted the added control and additional features. Tons of people use Toontrack's stuff, which is both a good thing and a bad thing.


    The Good:
    The best feature about EZ/Superior is that picking out pieces and building a song works REALLY well, and it's super simple to get a basic groove down without trying too hard. It makes songwriting within a DAW significantly less tedious. Bussing everything back out to Logic (via the multi-channel EZ/Superior option) makes it so you only really have to stay in EZ to pick your kit and a few loops (though I'm not sure if this is possible within Garageband). Everything else can be done within your DAW, and within the context of your own mix. Additionally, EZ/Superior are almost always on sale somewhere. I bought Superior for $179 off Amazon, it's normally $349 on their site (which has it reduced to $244 through the end of the year, which is still higher than Amazon, Guitar Center, etc.).


    The Bad:
    Sticking with the basic drumkit and loops results in you sounding like everyone else that uses EZ/Superior, which, in turn, makes it super easy to distinguish whether or not the artist chose to use EZ drummer or a real drummer for the mix. Simply changing some cymbals from their defaults and doing some manual EQing will help quite a bit. Another downside is the "crossgrade" from EZ to Superior (if you want to upgrade) costs just as much as a new license for Superior.


    Based on what I've tried out:


    BFD3 is perhaps the most expensive plugin out there, and, IMO, sounds the absolute best. It sounds the most realistic. However, it crashes like crazy and it doesn't give you the level of workflow you get within EZ/Superior. Plus, since it's not as popular as EZ/Superior, finding tutorials is harder, and added kits/bundles/whatever are more expensive than all the rest. The song generation and stability of EZ/Superior + BFD3's sounds would really be the ideal match (for me, at least), but I'm not made of money.


    Steven Slate, in an A/B comparison, both with video demos and using the plugin, sounded like trash. The drums sound artificial. However, EZ has a bundle of Steven Slate drums available, so if you want the "Steven Slate" (drummer) sound, you can get it within an EZ bundle, and you've got the best of both worlds.


    XLN's Addictive Drums sounded pretty good, but the interface was just... awkward, at least to me. It's also less featured than Superior, for not much less money (I think it was around $150 or so).


    There are others out there, and others I tried out, but there's a reason Toontrack's stuff (EZ/Superior) are the most popular - both packages are easy to use, affordable, expandable, and sound great. There are a lot of albums out there that actually have drums written within EZ - Devin Townsend's Ziltoid the Omniscient is a prime example.


    All that said though, I would highly, highly recommend picking up Logic X. The tools and features within Logic X greatly outweigh the tools in Garageband, it's just as fast to load up, the plugins are better, the samples are better, and, I believe, even the drummer is better.

    Guitars: Parker Fly Mojo Flame, Ibanez RG7620 7-string, Legator Ninja 8-string, Fender Strat & Tele, Breedlove Pro C25
    Pedalboard: Templeboards Trio 43, Mission VM-1, Morley Bad Horsie, RJM Mini Effect Gizmo, 6 Degrees FX Sally Drive, Foxpedals The City, Addrock Ol' Yeller, RJM MMGT/22, Mission RJM EP-1, Strymon Timeline + BigSky
    Stack: Furman PL-Plus C, Kemper Rack

  • Well, I can't say I agree with everything @dougc84 said above, only with a few key points though.
    I own Toontrack Superior 2 plus quite a few SDX's, I own EZD 2, and I own SSD 4.
    I have also owned Addictive Drums but sold my license.
    And of course I use Drummer as a Logic X user.


    To evaluate the lot you have to know what to expect.
    Superior 2 (like BFD for that matter) uses unprocessed, raw samples.
    They always require quite some work to be compressed and EQ'ed properly, but the result is absolutely top notch (and not stereotypical at all, as everybody treats the sample material differently). So in the end it doesn't matter what Superior kit you use but how you tune, compress and EQ it.
    EZD2 and SSD4 samples OTOH have been heavily EQ'ed and compressed already. They require much less work although of course they can be treated further a bit (but not too much, otherwise you get overprocessed and unnatural results).
    SSD of course doesn't sound like trash. A lot of people absolutely love how Steven Slate works his samples. It's only about your own taste here.
    The same goes for EZD2.
    Stereotypical sounds are more to be expected from SSD4 and EZD2 consequently.
    Addictive Drums sounds great but is a bit limited IMO. The step XLNaudio took with the development of AD2 turned me off and made me sell my license whereas Toontrack went into the right direction in terms of easiness of use with EZD2.


    Also I will say that I'm quite sure you can make Logic X's drummer work in a multi-out configuration, and that it is quite easy to extract midi from it to feed it to your drum- plugin of choice.
    (Also the drum samples from Logic's drummer need treatment analog to Superior 2's)


    Finally, my best recommendation for the OP is: Get Logic X first, use drummer and get the basic job done. Drummer in Logic actually is not different from the one in Garageband but has way more features obviously.
    'If' you feel the drums can be improved upon later (which I actually doubt) then think about getting Superior2.

  • You can create a drummer track in logic and just replace the VI with you plugin of choice. Exact same functionality re building grooves, but with you drum instrument ofchoice (bfd3 for me). This is in logic, mind you. Best of both worlds. Fon't be afraid of chopping up regions not just for fills, but also different bars of eg the verse. I finish off by cmd-dragging (copying)the drummer regions to
    a new midi track which converts to regular midi, then joining to one region, exporting, then import to a groove in bff for detailed editing.

  • I love slate drums I have all the expansion packs. Depending on what I'm recording depends on what I use the CLA stuff is just heavy compressed like CLA drums are and sound big. The Blackbird pack are raw and allow you to tweak as much as you like. Then you have the Terry Date pack. This is kick arse for metal, they just sit in a mix great and sound so powerful. The pack that surprised me the most was the Bendeth pack, out of a mix they sound pretty rubbish but when I used them in a mix for the first time they sounded great it was actually very surprising and for that pop rock paramore sound they sound great.


    EZ drummer 2 is very good for song writing I don't have any of the extra Toontrack drum packs as I always use SSD for my drum sounds but I do use EZ2 for composing. Having said that I've heard the made of metal drum sounds and they sound very good.


    Again all this is subject to what YOU are after and what you want to achieve :)

  • BFD3 (with my own samples) - nothing else is commercially viable when it comes to making records.


    If I have to use "Addictive" or EzDrummer, then I use Multiple kits, and setups and do the magic that way. - tedious, but it works...eventually.


    i don't like slate drums at all, they are far too processed, and you cant really tweak them much without sounding "off" - again IMO.. but they sound amazing and most polished if playing alone!.


    If I cant use real drums (that's ALWAYS on point) - then I'll often use whatever midi I can, then use trigger, and drop my own samples in place.


    ...But with most things, often its not about the sound, but about the performance.

  • Yes performance is everything!!!!! I've had drummers use the same kit and sound completely different depending on their style and ability infact it's night and day most of the time.

  • I think what we're all getting at here is one simple point: You're not going to get the perfect drum sound out of the box.


    Every tool you use, whether it's Logic/Garageband's drummer plugin, BFD3, EZ/Superior, Addictive, whatever - you're going to need to know how they work, sound, and interact with one another, and then know how to configure them in some sort of way that works for the kit/pieces selected as well as for your specific mix. The levels of compression you use (and, to that point, even the type of compressor you use - VCA, FET, Logic's Platinum), EQing, individual kit pieces (and their respective levels), and any other effects will make a subtle but noticeable difference to how the kit sounds.


    And think about it this way too - you're basically a guitarist filling the role of a drummer - another picky instrumentalist. We all know, as guitarists, we have our preferences on gear. Some people like simplicity - a guitar, a cable, and a tube amp. Some people drown their tone in washy reverb and delay and have a pedalboard the size of a 61 key keyboard (I'm looking at myself here - hey, I like options!). We all have our likes and dislikes in gear, and so do drummers. The kit a drummer uses is a collection of pieces not that different than the gear that we (as guitarists) use. I'd recommend getting at least one expansion with whatever you get as well. They are basically the equivalent of giving a guitarist another guitar - sure, it's still a guitar, but it sounds and feels different. A Les Paul sounds very different than a Strat. Unknowledgeable Fan in the front row doesn't know the difference. But, as a musician interested in doing drums, you totally should know the difference between the snap of a piccolo vs. the growl of a larger snare.


    @Ingolf The point I was trying to make above was that a lot of people stick with the defaults too often or use a base or bundle's preset without any modification, expecting everything out of the box to sound amazing. And a lot of times they do - they're just stereotypical and easily identifiable. I think we're agreed on that actually. And as far as multi-out for Drummer is concerned, you're probably right - it probably is available. I haven't spent a lot of time with it beyond scratch drums to really care too much, and as it's more of a "scratch" plugin for me to get some basic thoughts and ideas, I haven't felt the need to dig in too deep to it.

    Guitars: Parker Fly Mojo Flame, Ibanez RG7620 7-string, Legator Ninja 8-string, Fender Strat & Tele, Breedlove Pro C25
    Pedalboard: Templeboards Trio 43, Mission VM-1, Morley Bad Horsie, RJM Mini Effect Gizmo, 6 Degrees FX Sally Drive, Foxpedals The City, Addrock Ol' Yeller, RJM MMGT/22, Mission RJM EP-1, Strymon Timeline + BigSky
    Stack: Furman PL-Plus C, Kemper Rack