So I bought an Axe Fx Ax8 and I have been profiling my preset as I make them...

Eleven Rack had the best feel amongst the modelers I tried. IMHO ELeven Rack felt better than AXE II, but when I profiled my amp and as I was comparing the profile with the real amp, I realized that Eleven, AXE FX II , POD, can have a very good feel that someone can easily get used to and be comfortable with even though it's exaggerated specifically in the Sag department, either too much or too little and it varied significantly in a way not consistent with how real amps react when the string were hit harder or softer .

Add to that unusable/unnatural hi frequency response in the other modelers, to my ears and judgement, the Kemper is simply in a much higher league. Based on sound and at the surface it might seem that the difference is minor, but when you consider the inaccuracies, by which the AXE FX II amp would react when cranked or guitar played with varying dynamic, you will realize how unrealistic and off the modeling is.

Try a twin reverb model in any of the other modelers including the AXE FX II , crank the gain , and you will quickly realize how inaccurate the modeling is, because it won't sound or feel anything like a real twin, and my guess would be that the twin might be the easiest amp to model.

Why don't you take deadpan up on his offer Dean_R and post a clip for him to match?

'Cause ATM we're focussing on playability / feel, and any effort by deadpan to match-programme his Axe won't address this.

Quote from deadpan

Are you guys saying that if I profiles the Axe preset that the Kemper profile wouldn't feel the same as the Axe preset?

I certainly am, but as I mentioned, I haven't played an Axe. I can only go by things like the huge difference between, say, the HD 500's response and the Kemper's not only generally speaking, but using profiles made from the HD unit as well. It's like the thing suddenly came to life. Kemper Magic™, I tell you, Kemper Magic™.

Even after spending way too much time on my pod profiles, and they sound way better in the kpa with lots of tweaks than they did from the pod hd when i profiled them, the profiles still sound pretty lackluster compared to quality profiles of real rigs

Of course, Bobbo; they're polished turds after all. This was not what I was talking about though; it was the playability, and it's your profiles I'm going by. Still haven't dusted off the ol' unit to profile it, and not sure I ever will.

Deadpan, if by "fault" you mean the fact that the Kemper brought the thing to life, so to speak, meaning that the profiles' response was more dynamic, immediate and felt more "connected" to my fingers than the actual HD unit, then I agree - the fault lies with the Kemper, and what a glorious "happy accident" that fault must've seemed the day Christoph brought it to being.

I'm being facetious of course; I simply don't consider improved response and lowered latency "faults".

I agree with you that I can't make a firm judgement about how the Axe's playability would be affected; I simply took an "educated" (the POD experience), qualified (I provided the caveat) guess. Obviously only those who play both the Axe and Kemper versions of the same presets can judge this. You might say I was looking into my lil' ol' Kemperised™ crystal ball... with my fanboi sunnies on.

EDIT: Sorry - cheers mate. Way too late for this stuff when the sun's coming up, and to be honest, I'm not sure why I even chimed in on this. I s'pose it's got something to do with the fact that this unit continues to grow on and impress me more every day. Ridiculous, it is, in my humble opinion.

Quote from Monkey_Man

'Cause ATM we're focussing on playability / feel, and any effort by deadpan to match-programme his Axe won't address this.

I certainly am, but as I mentioned, I haven't played an Axe. I can only go by things like the huge difference between, say, the HD 500's response and the Kemper's not only generally speaking, but using profiles made from the HD unit as well. It's like the thing suddenly came to life. Kemper Magic™, I tell you, Kemper Magic™.

Sorry Monkey Man but I call BS on this.Dean_R and you are spouting off and a simple
way to confirm this is to take deadpan up on his offer (that he volunteered). deadpan offered to make it clear which was which but I suspect that if he did a blind test here very few could tell the difference between a Axe direct, the matched KPA profile and the original clip - both in sound or the feel that you are so busy working on ATM. Besides just because you are that busy to be able to post but not listen to a comparison it doesn't mean all of us are!
Edit - sorry for the edits but this site is just not very iPhone friendly and is a major pain to use!

Quote from SwAn1

Sorry Monkey Man but I call BS on this.Dean_R and you are spouting off and a simple
way to confirm this is to take deadpan up on his offer (that he volunteered).........

You're clearly misinformed. It would have been very simple if Fractal has one video or clip comparing their modeling to the actual amps they claim to model. There are countless videos and clips demonstrating the KPA accuracy Show me one video by Fractal that shows a single amp they model. They will not post a single video or clip because they know beyond the shadow of doubt that their modeling is not accurate.

I'd settle for a picture. That's what I call BS, claim to model something and not show the amp they model, same goes for line 6 Helix.
IF we're going that route, post direct track of anything done using the Axe and I will re-amp it with POD or Eleven and get similar results. That will not prove that they all feel the same. Even if they sound the same. There are countless good producers that are getting better results using plugins, than many who own AXE FX or Kemper. That proves nothing. It proves that Skill can carry you very far, but you will reach your limit in certain gear.

Deadpan plays good and he can get good patches using Pods even though he hates them, so he felt limited by the POD compared with AXE or Kemper, but I bet you there are quite a few that will make their POD sound better than the 100k Dumble. That says nothing about the dumble. Skills are irrelevant for comparing gear potential. The AXE is good at somethings, , but clearly it's no where near as accurate as the Kemper in amp modeling. That has been proven and is constantly being proven every time someone profiles an amp, It doesn't need me or anyone else to prove. AXE FX II, and Helix inaccuracies or accuracy hasn't been demonstrated. They sound like guitar amps, and so does amplitube.

Not talking about FAS. Talking about an offer from our own deadpan. Don't muddy the water - just post a clip and send it to deadpan with the info he requested. I suspect you don't want to prove it as you probably would be one of those who could not tell a difference in the high end fizz you keep on about. Could be wrong but I call BS (again) on your unproven assumptions. But would happily apologize if you were to prove me wrong!

Quote from SwAn1

Not talking about FAS. Talking about an offer from our own deadpan. Don't muddy the water - just post a clip and send it to deadpan with the info he requested. I suspect you don't want to prove it as you probably would be one of those who could not tell a difference in the high end fizz you keep on about. Could be wrong but I call BS on your unproven assumptions.

We'll I don't feel limited by the Kemper and I don't care to buy another modler even thought I still have POD , Eleven and amplitube.

On the other hand, Deedpan seems to feel limited by the the Pod and Kemper, so he can post the dry track of what he did with the AXE II and I assure you someone who doesn't feel limited by the Kemper will Re-amp using Kemper and the difference will be night and day, because to me the AXE FX sounds unnatural and Fake. Does that make sense to you?

You remind me of the school yard bully who suddenly has to back off when someone is willing to step out into the parking lot. I appreciate your passion for the Kemper (I love mine too) but that is where we part ways. Edit: Monkey Man I'm putting my hopes on you!

Quote from SwAn1

You remind me of the school yard bully who suddenly has to back off when someone is willing to step out into the parking lot. I appreciate your passion for the Kemper (I love mine too) but that is where we part ways.

If there's any bullying here, it's coming from you as you don't seem to grasp certain social concepts.
This is a Kemper Forum, if someone is unable to get good results with the Kemper, there should be no problem posting the issue.

As I mentioned before, I'm not the one with a problem feeling limited by the Kemper. So the proper approach would be that the person, who feels limited or unable to get good results with the Kemper, should be the one to post a direct track so the nice community might be able to help him or show him something he might be missing,

If you're happy with KPA, and you care to help, you could request a direct track to show your forum mate if you can help, but instead, you let your limited understanding of the topic get the best of you accusing others of being a bully. Think twice, it's alright sometimes to do that before you speak.

Yes it is the Kenper forum. And I own a Kemper. You want to censor my speech as well now? I am not the one who went out of my way to make wild accusations about a competing product, emphasize those claims when called out on them and then refuse to take a simple way to back them up! Sorry man but will always call this type of nonsense out. I will give you the last word. BTW anytime you are willing to give it a try let me know. If you actually can guess right I will be the first to apologize.

Quote from SwAn1

Yes it is the Kenper forum. And I own a Kemper. You want to censor my speech as well now? I am not the one who went out of my way to make wild accusations about a competing product, emphasize those claims when called out on them and then refuse to take a simple way to back them up! Sorry man but will always call this type of nonsense out. I will give you the last word.

I'm just pointing out the obvious, because I will not got to the AXE II or line 6 forum and demand Direct track to prove that Kemper is easier (not that Deedpan is doing that as I truly appreciate his effort to share his experience with another piece of gear), but you turned this into the a challenge to post dry track as if people have nothing else in their daily life except time to make a dry track to prove the obvious.

Have a good night SWan. I'm just participating in a discussion and that's all there's to it, no censorship is involved.

My apologies - you are quite right in one regard. You have so much time to attack other products I made the mistake of assuming that you would have time to make a track for deadpan. For that I do apologize.

Quote from SwAn1

My apologies - you are quite right in one regard. You have so much time to attack other products I made the mistake of assuming that you would have time to make a track for deadpan. For that I do apologize.

Not a problem and I also apologize for coming of as a bully even though it's the furthest from my intentions. It might seem that I'm bashing another product, but I'm just sharing my personal experience. I also don't mind posting direct tracks and I will do that in the next couple of days to elaborate on my experience and how I found the other modelers limited compared to Kemper. This can actually be fun if Deedpan can show that he can get the same thing with the AXE, even though I highly doubt it because I tried the AXE first hand and it was no where near the kpa in the dynamic and realism., but that again can be due to my limited skills or finding the right tool for what I do in the Kemper while others find the right tool in the AXE FX.

I think sometimes we forget that people are sharing their opinion, even if it seems harsh, it's still an opinion based on personal experience and it's not posted or claimed to be a fact.

Hey deadpan - I never saw your intentions as trying to debunk the Kemper but simply dialoging your experience. My issue is that unbridled fanboy statements actually do more harm to the product than help it. When someone who admits that his opposition to a product is apparently based on watching YouTube clips and then with authority states that the differences between the two products are "day and night" vs your experience with the actual product or statements on a competitors site by a well know and respected jazz musician who sold his KPA for a competing product, it makes the fanboy stuff look foolish. I love my KPA but I also my Axe (mostly for the effects but more and more for its amps and some Vox IR's I just got from Ownhammer that are exceptionally good.) I think that there is a place for what you are doing and a place for others expressing how much they like the KPA and even making fun of the competition - I have done that myself when people bring up the fact that each version of the Axe firmware is "more realer". Some however seem to take every opportunity to bash everything that is not KPA and anyone else's experience with competing products and probably because of your open and honest posts here it just bugged me tonight that people would be so willfully close minded. Should I have said everything I said? No, and for that I offer A more sincere apology than my last one but I don't regret the conversation (such as it was).