Kemper vs. AX8 vs. Helix vs. BIAS Head - BLIND TEST!

Quote from Dimi84

.... That being said, wouldn't you be able to achieve something similar by tweaking the AX8?...

If it was that easy, I'm sure we would have seen it, but the consensus has been the Kemper sits better in the Mix. All the deep editing in the AXE II will not get you there, that was also my experience when I played both. To me the axe II sounded like the excessively overproduced sounds of generic distorted guitars of the late 80s and 90s and the Kemper sounded like a real amp and from there you can do whatever you want with it, I couldn't get realistic natural feel from the AXE II no matter how I tried with the help of a friend that loaned me his.

Quote from Dean_R

You guys can say whatever you want to say but even based on clips alone, kemper recorded tones in regards to realism and musicality are untouchable by anything in the modeling world, the above video you posted was done in the spirit of fun but in regard to real world comparison, you gotta be a fool to even consider it as an actual representation of what each of the units are capable of. Kemper is in a league of it's own and here's the proof.

Check these kemper clips and search the whole wide world web for anything from AXE II to Helix to Bias and if you find anything that you think is in the same ball park, then post a link to the video or clip. Very easy task, find the best Marshall tone from any modeler, or anything Bognar from any modeler that can touch these tones (Raw Amp tones), and then you can come with a straight face and say that they're even comparable. Let's do that in the spirit of fun just like the opening post video. I will not post any Marshall from Bias , Helix or AXE so I don't get accused of being Biased and picking bad ones, but everything even the best that I could find sounds like absolute crap compared to the Kemper profiles,. so I let you do the picking ad good luck finding anything that's within a mile .

Here is an Axe-Fx tone match of one of the Top Jimi profiles. The first half is the profile, the second half the Axe-Fx (or maybe the other way around).

http://www.fractalaudio.com/tmp/topjimi.mp3

Two more Axe-FX clips from the opposite side of the spectrum.

it is that easy if you know what you are doing. Only Thing Is Jimmy did something dean prefers for him so no effort.

I'd still like to hear dean play the same riff as Jimmy with the same profile to show how it sounds.

So dean please do prove your point by playing that for us. Otherwise, well, you are alone.

Quote from deadpan

it is that easy if you know what you are doing. Only Thing Is Jimmy did something dean prefers for him so no effort.

I'd still like to hear dean play the same riff as Jimmy with the same profile to show how it sounds.

So dean please do prove your point by playing that for us. Otherwise, well, you are alone.

Well, you said the Top Jimi profiles and Guido's profiles sound like crap!! Many happy users are enjoying those profiles so maybe they're not your cop of tea. I linked to the 74 lead by top jimi and here's a member of the community who redid limelight All the guitar parts using KPA. I think they sound just like top jimi intended them to sound like.

Quote from Dean_R

If it was that easy, I'm sure we would have seen it, but the consensus has been the Kemper sits better in the Mix. All the deep editing in the AXE II will not get you there, that was also my experience when I played both. To me the axe II sounded like the excessively overproduced sounds of generic distorted guitars of the late 80s and 90s and the Kemper sounded like a real amp and from there you can do whatever you want with it, I couldn't get realistic natural feel from the AXE II no matter how I tried with the help of a friend that loaned me his.

@deadpan which one you think sound like the real amp specifically "Mean Street" as it's easy to judge, it's only a short clip and since you posted to the AX8 which one you think sits better in the Mix ? AX8 or Kemper? I just want to make sure I understand your honest opinion on this?

So that's a no?

I think that if one clip sounds better that it was simply dialed in better, are you saying there were others on the Ax8 that sounded better or even equal? That is point and case.

Quote from deadpan

So that's a no?

I think that if one clip sounds better that it was simply dialed in better, are you saying there were others on the Ax8 that sounded better or even equal? That is point and case.

The AXE 8 was harsh and buried in the mix compared with Kemper Vanhalen video that sounded much more like a real world tube amp and if someone can't hear that, they really need to get their hearing checked. The difference is very stark and can't be overlooked by anyone who plays guitar and knows what tube amps should sound like.

I understand you have you opion but thank the lord every one else has ears as well.

So you still refuse to do a clip and provide the di for us?

I thought the Axe sounded pretty good until the KPA clip was posted. Big difference, and the Kemper wins.

I have a question for all you recording guys out there...

What are these people typically using to record the video and audio for these YouTube clips? I am way behind the times, when it comes to recording/mastering...so any advice would be greatly appreciated.

Obviously, you can't know exactly what these people are using for recording equipment (unless they state it in the comments section of their video), however, I guess my question is more along the lines of "what is the general practice, that produces very good results".

For example, I don't know if people typically use a dedicated HDvideo camera with built in microphone...something like this:

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Or do people use a DSLR camera for video, and a separate recording device for audio? What type of software do they use to combine the separate video and audio tracks into a single .mp4 video format for YouTube?

One last observation...

On a personal note, I wish these people would not use the actual reference (studio) track, by the original artist, when making these cover videos. If they are really trying to showcase their specific tone and performance, it is hard to tell if they have truly isolated and removed the original guitar from the mix. I have a feeling that, in many cases, people are just playing over the original recording, with the original guitar somewhat muted, but still audible.

IMHO, I feel it would be better for the user to play against a pre-programmed rhythm track with no vocals. That way, the user's full tone and performance is completely clear, unmasked, and right out front.

Quote from deadpan

I understand you have you opion but thank the lord every one else has ears as well.

So you still refuse to do a clip and provide the di for us?

So your opinion is that in your AX8 Video the guitar sits and sounds more realistic?? This has to do with being objective regardless of whether you own or don't own the device. If you're unable to hear how much better the Kemper sits in the MIX, there's really no point to discuss anything!

I don't refuse to provide with DI and if you recall I did in the past and did provide you specifically with DIs with the Guido's Bognar and you yourself acknowledged (In a thread that you started) the limitation of the AXE 8 in sounding natural and didn't clean up very well when the volume was rolled down.and couldn't get close the Guido Profile. In that thread you were hoping that a future firmware update was going to improve the volume roll down cleanup issue.

The issue I had due to my in experience with the Axe can be solved by adding a compressor after the amp.

Anyway, the point is they are not on different levels and a user should base their choice on form factor and price. For me, I choose both! Love both! But to hear you bad mouth a product makes you sounds a red political party to me. Since words can add no more usefullness to this subject I will leave at that.

For comparing the videos. I do believe the KPA video had the full track playing.

Quote from deadpan

Anyway, the point is they are not on different levels and a user should base their choice on form factor and price. For me, I choose both! Love both! But to hear you bad mouth a product makes you sounds a red political party to me. Since words can add no more usefullness to this subject I will leave at that.

For comparing the videos. I do believe the KPA video had the full track playing.

I spent some time researching because I wanted to chose one product to get realistic amp tones. , it's not in my budget to buy the two!! Buying the two is a good solution for those who have it in their budget!!
When a thread comes up to compare AXE, Helix, Bias with Kemper, It's only fair that I should share my personal opinion.

It's not about bad mouthing a product, but it's to help people realize without the "political correctness bullshit" that leaves them hanging and more confused that "all products are capable and I love them all!!". I can hear how Kemper fits better in the mixes and sounding more natural and I invite anyone who must buy one product only to judge for themselves even though the differences are really stark for the purpose of amp modeling.

Quote from deadpan

For comparing the videos. I do believe the KPA video had the full track playing.

If that's the case then then the Kemper had to battle more parts and it still fit in the mix and sounded more natural when the AXE 8 struggled badly (in comparison) to fit in the mix even though it didn't have to fight for space with other parts!! (this is honest comparisons, discussion, and reviews and not bad mouthing products)

Quote from Dean_R

So your opinion is that in your AX8 Video the guitar sits and sounds more realistic?? This has to do with being objective regardless of whether you own or don't own the device. If you're unable to hear how much better the Kemper sits in the MIX, there's really no point to discuss anything!
I don't refuse to provide with DI and if you recall I did in the past and did provide you specifically with DIs with the Guido's Bognar and you yourself acknowledged (In a thread that you started) the limitation of the AXE 8 in sounding natural and didn't clean up very well when the volume was rolled down.and couldn't get close the Guido Profile. In that thread you were hoping that a future firmware update was going to improve the volume roll down cleanup issue.

Do I have your permission to share that with @sinmix ?

Quote from deadpan

Do I have your permission to share that with @sinmix ?

In the next couple of day, I will probably be able to get better DI than that one so I would appreciate if you hold off.

k

Quote from Dean_R

Well, you said the Top Jimi profiles and Guido's profiles sound like crap!! Many happy users are enjoying those profiles so maybe they're not your cop of tea. I linked to the 74 lead by top jimi and here's a member of the community who redid limelight All the guitar parts using KPA. I think they sound just like top jimi intended them to sound like.

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WOW. I listened to the original like 1 mio times. You nailed the true spirit in that cover. Kudos.

Quote from sinmix

There's something very important that you don't seem to want to understand .. DI tracks also are limited, if you play the crappiest modeler that doesn't have expressiveness or response to your fingers, the performance will be missing the inspiration and you won't be able to fix it no matter how you reamp it, it will be missing many things!

On the other hand if you play a real amp or something close to it, your performance will include more dynamic and feel. To illustrate, when you record your DI track, what you're listening to and interacting with is more important that all the reamping bullshit. If a modeler has the wrong dynamic response to your playing, your response and performance. To clearly make my point, you don't just plug your guitar in the board and get a DI track listing to the DI track itself, what you're listening too makes or brakes your performance. In the early days, the whole band was recorded in the same instance so even the band members interactions were there.

So if anything that really matters more than just how the modeler sound recorded that should be compared, presuming all modelers of today are print worthy on records, would be how inspiring it is to play!! So if you're inspired playing a POD, that's great and if you're inspired playing and AXE FX II, Helix , Amplitube, they're all worthy and a good producers will fit them in a mix, but I can tell you that they're all missing the proper and correct dynamic interaction of real world tube amps where all great recorded guitar tones came and still come from. So using these inferior technologies will hinder your inspiration because it's simply missing the expressiveness that's found in the Kemper. But the Kemper is also capable of better more realistic sounds as has been proven everywhere (it sounds and feels just like the amps by most who played). Bias, Fractal or Line 6 need to improve their modeling to catch up and they are. Constant firmware updates, are constantly changing the modeling because they know it's not as accurate as the Kemper, but it gets close, but not really close enough when you factor the wrong feel and responsiveness.

Let's presume that all medlers can be made to sound the same. How do you compare responsiveness and feel? With a DI track? I don't think so.