Problems making a Direct Profile

FlyingSnowman · Nov 23rd 2016

I'm trying to make a Direct Profile from a Marshall amp. I tried using 2 methods:

- The Rivera RockCrusher attenuator's Line Out - the KPA said that it detected a "noise gate" and that the results were unreliable. Fair enough. It's documented too.
- The Behringer Ultra-G GI100 DI box. I set it to -40 dB... without speaker simulation.

The problem is that, using the Behringer, the signal is too hot. It's totally unusable. The KPA says the amp is distorting too much (I put it at 10 of course because that's the sound I want to profile). If I lower the return signal on the KPA, it says the signal is too low and he cannot detect it... When I was able to get the right volume and profile it, the sound was horrible. Please note that I copied a cabinet from a Studio Profile with the same amp settings, and that I did a merge profile! So I'm not talking about the sound of the Direct Profile, which is always horrible anyway.

What do you guys use for Direct Profiling?

Michael_dk · Nov 23rd 2016

Hmmm... You say the amp is at ten, I assume that's the master volume? What is the gain set at? (if it has separate controls)

FlyingSnowman · Nov 23rd 2016

Quote from Michael_dk

Hmmm... You say the amp is at ten, I assume that's the master volume? What is the gain set at? (if it has separate controls)

There's no gain control, there is only a master volume. This is an old Marshall

Michael_dk · Nov 23rd 2016

Ah...

Well... A couple of other questions then (not that I'm going by second-hand experience here):

1) When you say you were ale to get the right volume and profile it, how did you obtain this - was it by lowering the volume on the Marshall?
2) The merged profile: You say you merged with a studio profile with the same amp settings - I assume that it was from a studio profile with the exact same settings as when you managed to take the direct profile (eg. after lowering the volume on the amp)?

There are some cases where the profiler has trouble doing a profile; one of the most important ones is when there is "significant distortion" in both pre- and power sections. You may still get excellent results in this case, but it might take a little bit of "cheating"

DonPetersen · Nov 23rd 2016

can you make a good Direct Amp Profile with Volume at '5', for example?

FlyingSnowman · Nov 23rd 2016

1) I just fiddled with the return level on the KPA until it worked. I didn't lower the volume on the Marshall, because that would give me a different distortion sound.
2) yes, I copied the cabinet "and clicked the Merge checkbox" from the Studio Profile which was made with exactly the same amp settings.

What's the cheating part?

FlyingSnowman · Nov 23rd 2016

Quote from DonPetersen

can you make a good Direct Amp Profile with Volume at '5', for example?

I will have to try and make a Merged profile then listen to it.

Michael_dk · Nov 23rd 2016

Quote from FlyingSnowman

1) I just fiddled with the return level on the KPA until it worked. I didn't lower the volume on the Marshall, because that would give me a different distortion sound.
2) yes, I copied the cabinet "and clicked the Merge checkbox" from the Studio Profile which was made with exactly the same amp settings.

What's the cheating part?

Experimenting with the EQ controls - depending on where they are in the internal chain. Or just profile at a lower volume and use the stack controls to get the profile to match the intended sound of the amp

Ingvar · Nov 23rd 2016

I've got the same problem trying to profile my 1W 50th Anniversary Offset Marshall.
I was able to profile only Clean sound with volume set below 2. Any higher level caused KPA got clipped.

Michael_dk · Nov 23rd 2016

Quote from Ingvar

I've got the same problem trying to profile my 1W 50th Anniversary Offset Marshall.
I was able to profile only Clean sound with volume set below 2. Any higher level caused KPA got clipped.

I don't think the problem the OP has is the kemper clipping?

Ingvar · Nov 23rd 2016

My Kemper just stops profiling and shows the warning about clipping.
I'll follow this thread for my problem is very similar (I guess).

Frodebro · Nov 24th 2016

I use the line out of a RockCrusher Recording, and haven't had any noise gate warnings.

FlyingSnowman · Nov 24th 2016

Quote from Frodebro

I use the line out of a RockCrusher Recording, and haven't had any noise gate warnings.

Now that is very interesting and strange... Did you put the RockCrusher in Load Box mode, or Attenuator mode (Studio level or less) ?

Frodebro · Nov 24th 2016

Quote from FlyingSnowman

Now that is very interesting and strange... Did you put the RockCrusher in Load Box mode, or Attenuator mode (Studio level or less) ?

I didn't have a cab plugged into it, so it was in load box mode. I have the recording model though, so it may be doing something a little differently.

FlyingSnowman · Nov 25th 2016

Quote from Frodebro

I didn't have a cab plugged into it, so it was in load box mode. I have the recording model though, so it may be doing something a little differently.

Yeah, I have the normal model. I will try to use it in load box and see if that works...

DonPetersen · Nov 25th 2016

I just want to point out that it is not recommended to use a dummy load/load box, since the results will not be authentic.

Frodebro · Nov 25th 2016

Quote from DonPetersen

I just want to point out that it is not recommended to use a dummy load/load box, since the results will not be authentic.

In the fifties and sixties Fender discouraged customers from turning their amps up too loud, because this would cause "unwanted distortion."

DonPetersen · Nov 26th 2016

Quote from Frodebro

In the fifties and sixties Fender discouraged customers from turning their amps up too loud, because this would cause "unwanted distortion."

it's still worth pointing out that the very important speaker/power amp interaction does not happen with dummy loads/load boxes.
This is not about 'abusing' something not intended by the manufacturer to make it a feature (like distortion was at some point), but a reminder that a vital part is simply missing (or is over-simplified) in sounds that were obtained with such a device.

FlyingSnowman · Nov 26th 2016

Quote from DonPetersen

it's still worth pointing out that the very important speaker/power amp interaction does not happen with dummy loads/load boxes.
This is not about 'abusing' something not intended by the manufacturer to make it a feature (like distortion was at some point), but a reminder that a vital part is simply missing (or is over-simplified) in sounds that were obtained with such a device.

Yeah, I will just use the Behringer Ultra-G GI100 DI box and try to put the volume at 5 or 7. Of course, if that works, it's a bit pointless... Because the Major sounds only good when it's loud.

Michael_dk · Nov 26th 2016

Quote from FlyingSnowman

Of course, if that works, it's a bit pointless... Because the Major sounds only good when it's loud.

I'm wondering if you have tried recording the amp (using a mic) at both volume 6 and at volume 10 - and then made sure the recordings are levelmatched and compared them in this scenario?

I'm not at all saying that there isn't a different in the tone, just that "louder always sounds better", and it MIGHT be a factor Worth a shot in any case I think.

Share