Live EQ

    I currently reside in Vietnam, so the sound systems here aren't great, but even on a nice system the Kemper can be brittle & hard to mix.
    I find it REALLY difficult to get the tone I want live. Its either too harsh or not saturated enough. It's quite frustrating, as the Kemper is expensive & very praised.



    I run straight into the board most times. I feel like with the right PA you can make a shitty effects processor sound huge. But with a mediocre PA the Kemper doesn't feel good to play. The touch isn't natural, or amp like. Doesn't feel right in my hands. It's like playing through a crappy solid state. Very Ice-picky, you can't seem to get that trebly harshness out.


    For instance, It would be like turning 1K through 10K to maximum on a broad band EQ



    Any suggestions on how to mix live?

    Thanks for the warm welcome


    I've got the cabs on, with nothing else in front, or anything behind through the effects loop.
    Just going straight into the Kemper, straight to the board.


    I play a Crowley guitar, It's a Tele/Strat Hybrid, custom built out of Mississippi.


    I know some PA's aren't great, but I should still be able to get a good sound out of a cheap analog Yamaha board.


    I use M Britt profiles a lot of the time & run my EQ basically flat. Our keyboardist has great tone, uses a Nord. My IPod sounds like it should, so its not necessarily the fault of the PA.
    But I just can't seem to get a smooth tone out of the Kemper. Sounds great at home with my AKG K240 headphones, but I'd like to replicate that same tone live.


    Unfortunately I don't have a way of recording live, at this time, except besides an IPhone


    Appreciate any advice!

    I've never encountered this problem. If anything, I've had the opposite issue, where the sounds was too dull and muffled, but never ice picky. There are global Output tone controls that might help you get where you need. You can save these by name, and recall for particular venues.These are separate for Master and Monitor outputs. I suppose there's also the issue of having the correct line level into the mixer. I know I had an issue where I was running into an XLR input that expected a microphone, and it sounded lousy. Switching to a 1/4" input brought it to life. Good luck!

    Go for it now. The future is promised to no one. - Wayne Dyer

    What db do you run your KPA? Maybe I'm running it too hot or something.. I will try the XLR to 1/4 trick to see if that makes a difference.


    I've had to run mine down as low as -26db or -31db. I also every now & then use a J48 Radial active direct box, with -26db cut on, & that helps it sound a little more natural.


    All I've got is an IPhone recording, but It's pretty bad quality. You can't really hear exactly how it sounds, or hear the extreme scratchy sound I'm referring to.


    https://www.facebook.com/75223…/videos/1168108903273938/

    I sit at -18db or so, so you're down quite a bit. However, if you're going into an XLR input designed to accepts mics, that requires a much lower level. Try the 1/4" route.

    Go for it now. The future is promised to no one. - Wayne Dyer

    I go end of this mounth to Asia.
    Maybe this is helpfull, i just posted an thread.


    - Removed the EQ's in all slots (normally I only use EQ after the amp stack)
    - I put an graphic EQ before the amp stack (slot D)
    - Put the EQ volume 1,5 or higher
    - Put an HPF between 100-250 Hz (much higher then with an EQ after the amp stack !!!)
    - Put an LPF between 6-9 Khz
    - Change definition, clarity and compressor to taste.


    And then try change cabs.
    I mostly have about 10 favorite cabs.


    And at last options change a little bit the output EQ depending on the venue's PA.
    XLR Output volume (locked) about -20 / -12 db to the board/mixer.

    Edited 2 times, last by allright ().

    Good technique. That sounds like it would help a lot.


    I'll try bypassing the EQ, throwing in a Graphic/Studio EQ & adding a Hi-Pass & Low-Pass through the effects loop.


    Typically, I leave the Main EQ about flat, maybe 1 or 2 +/-, as It tends to mess with the amount of right hand play feel


    I'll try the 1/4 trick too.



    Thanks a lot everyone!!

    The HPF/LPF and volume is whitin the graphic EQ so it's only 1 slot.
    I not bypass the normal eq (bass, mid, treble). But because the HPF/LPH values, now the normal eq can be used more extreme then without the HPF/LPF.


    Good luck.

    So I tried a load of different options you guys suggested, at a gig tonight in Hanoi.


    First, I tried putting a Graphic EQ in slot D, along with the built in EQ. It's way more present with another EQ in the mix, it's a decent solution, but still doesn't fix that harsh sharpness


    Second, I tried playing with the EQ off all together, which in my opinion sounds much more natural, (like how the amp was mic'd initially)


    Then, I tried a HPF & LPF, both on. It plays well, but doesn't sound very true. I also alternated each one between on & off, with regular EQ on/off, plus every combination of EQ's I've listed, together & individually.
    Side note!! All the settings I had saved with multiple EQ's present, completely crapped out on me at one point. Had to resort to previous patches I had made without any extra EQ's. Even tried going back to them at the end of the show, just to see, but none of them had any volume. I'm on the latest update 5.0.3


    REGARDLESS


    Sounded ok at best, but never great...


    I also tried running a 1/4 instead of XLR to the board, the only difference is that It was lower volume & lacked character. It wasn't as responsive, or articulate like a real amp. It was thin, almost a weak power tone.
    Needless to say I switched back by the third song


    There's only been one time where I think I was remotely happy with the live sound it produced & that was playing in a stadium setting, VERY loud, with a professional sound company & a top notch sound guy. Still wasn't completely satisfied with the tone though.... Because It sounded like a processor rather than having an amp mic'd on stage.


    Long story short, I've gotten fabulous tones out of a POD x3 Live, with a mediocre PA, than I've ever been able to produce with the KPA


    I'm pretty much over the hype of the Kemper, great in theory & sounds good in a studio setting, but not very feasible for live performance. It has a shrill type of presence, that doesn't sound natural


    Sorry If it seems like I'm ranting, but I'm just really disappointed with how it performs live, which is mainly what I use it for.
    I will still try harder to work on getting a better live tone with the KPA for now, because it's all I've got to work with over here in Vietnam


    But I don't think you'll ever see Robben Ford playing a Profiler live

    Quote from mattfertitta

    Yeah, I've heard some good profiles


    I just don't know if the KPA is for me. It's not consistent from PA to PA.

    On the contrary, it's completely consistent....it's the PA's that aren't. I don't really see how this would be different with any guitar amplification device. If you're micing it, the PA is going to be the final arbiter of the final sound.


    It seems that you need to choose some different profiles to use live.


    BTW, I don't mean to sound unsympathetic. However, if you've been able to get usable tones form an X3 Live, great tones from the Kemper should be easily achievable.

    If you like the sound of a POD x3 Live, then I suspect you will never be satisfied with a Kemper.


    Just goes to show you. Different strokes for different folks.


    I must have very different taste in guitar tone than you do. I cringe when I hear any product from Line 6 in a live setting (disclaimer .... I haven't heard the Helix yet).


    The good news is that you are very likely to get most of what you spent on the Kemper back when you sell it ;)

    Why not look at other profiles. I'm sure that M Britt are great, but they don't suit everyone. For me, they are very different to most other commercial profilers.


    The other thing is that you will almost certainly need different tones live to those that work in the studio mix. To create the illusion of power over small speakers and headphones requires a different approach to pumping it out live.


    Every live setup I ever had took at least six months to get the best from, so never give up immediately.

    Karl


    Kemper Rack OS 9.0.5 - Mac OS X 12.6.7

    I don't really like the x3. I was just making a point that it seems to be easier to get a decent live sound with it, comparative to the KPA. Lincoln Brewster sure has. Although, the KPA is a much better product, even though it doesn't seem to suit my playing live.


    I don't completely use M Britt profiles, I just like the clarity of the profiles. I use one or two standard AC30 profiles from Kemper & also profiles that I've made, plus others that i've found online. Problem is, no matter which profiles I use they all sound completely different & unnatural live. Even If you all were to send me your favorite profiles, I still don't feel like it would be very promising on stage.


    How do you know what it's going to sound like through a PA when listening through headphones? Shouldn't that be the idea, mix first, then balance live?


    I feel like it's a means to an end... The only way I'll be content is from hearing the passing sound waves through a guitar speaker, produced by tube power. However, I haven't tried the actual powered Kemper yet, I only have the non powered version, to reduce weight. Since I can't legally own a car in Vietnam. Therefore, I have to transport my gear via motorbike.

    I know what you mean about a guitar speaker. My front of house guy is happy with the sound from DI, but I still use a 4x12 with merged profiles to get the right feel on stage. That is, I use in ears, but there is weight missing if I don't have the speaker in the background too.


    It starts to sound like you are someone who needs to make their own profiles if you have access to the gear.

    Karl


    Kemper Rack OS 9.0.5 - Mac OS X 12.6.7