Kemper vs. Real Amp Test - Cameron CCV

    I definitely hear the difference between real amp and the Kemper. But honestly, I don't care, because Kemper does sound good, end of story.


    But then again...only if you have quality profiles ;)

    "When there's no more room in hell, the dead will walk the earth" :D

    Like 2

    Well, Kemper profiles in a mix scenario is very hard to identify which is not a thing when you listen guitar in solo. Just try to concentrate on two things: Low end in palm mutes and midrange!


    But who cares anymore if there's difference or not,really? If it sounds good Keep Calm and Blast the Kemper! :thumbup:

    Didn't read through all the new posts yet. Why? Because as a "new" user I was busy recording a metal band. And guess what? I profiled their amp. Now if everything is so "trivial" you would think they'd be ok with using the kemper instead? I'll do work for them for a couple of weeks and it's just easier to do it with the kemper. So I a/b'd their guitarist. Real amp vs kemper. Also showed them how both sound within a mix. Result?


    He preferred the kemper profile to his amp :D Yeap. Why? Because "duuuuuuuuuude this will cut through the mix better" :D (As if we can't eq, but anyway). Aaaaaaaand he has a point. But for me.. that just goes on to show the differences that do exist. It's not just him who hears and feels them. Whether they are "trivial" or not, it's a matter of semantics -- for some of us they are definitely important.


    And interestingly the reasons he preferred the profile are largely why I tend to prefer the real amps to the profiles. I don't want "mixing decisions" done by the kemper. I want to be in control. If I wanted my amps to sound different I would probably do so even before hitting up any DAWs, working with the amp itself.


    Now when it comes to the A/B test in the other thread... with the 7 segments.. The playing is somewhat particular. It's harder to tell the kemper apart from the real amp with this particular playing.


    But honestly, do you think you wouldn't be able to tell my laney from the profile (as in the video) in a similar test? I can play stuff that don't register a big enough of a difference. Yes, then it's trivial.


    Yet I can also play things that will show the difference quite clearly. Anyone interested in this test? I don't know if I can be fussed to do it, because it feels a bit pointless, but it would be interesting to see.

    Edited once, last by Dimi84 ().

    Like 2

    Well no, I can't be fussed. Even if I did the test I probably wouldn't post it because of all the drama.

    @Dimi84


    Are we "in (full) control" while micing our clients (or ours for that case..even if we "know our rigs") tube rigs;
    I mean in control by a degree that we always mic the tube amps as they sound "in the room";And even if we achieve this do the tube rigs always sound the same,every single day during a recording session;


    Or is it more like micing them by our and the clients ears..sitting in the control room unless the "whoaa...yeah..lets keep it like this..." and the recording gets started;


    I never had the feeling of being "in control" before my clients gave the OK..even if I liked my micing of my clients tube rigs one silent comment of the guitar player (mostly just more like a whisper.. ;) ) like "I am not sure about the way my amp sounds right now" was enough to make me very "unsecure" from time to time..and then the running between control and recording room seemed endless even if it took just a few minutes..and then the next day the same guitar player asks if I changed something because "it does not sound like yesterday" anymore..did this never happen to you;


    What I mean is that there are so many parameters during a recording job of which are most "human factor" so of what kind of "control" do we speak here when it comes to micing tube rigs;


    We give this question of doubt to the tube rigs.That they sound (very often) even completely different during every day of a recording job.That they sound even (if @CK put it very correctly) even different within an hour after the lunch break.


    If it sounds good I dont care.If it is "rocknroll all the way" during a recording I dont care.Would it be great if the Kemper would sound ALWAYS exactly like the profiled rig;Yes sure.For many jobs this would be great.But it does not obviously.As the tube rigs do not sound always the same during a recording.So okay...lets try to find a way (together with the KPA-guys) to make this happen in the future.That would be nice.

    Yes, tube amps can change in tone.


    But.. in my experience.. not quite by getting tighter, different in how the bass end responds, have such differences in some mids frequencies. It wont feel like playing through a different amp in the sense of a "tonal signature" and response getting lost. I've never had such an experience in a controlled environment unless tubes screw up. And I believe there's also quite a bit of bias at play. Someone may be having a nice day -- I dunno; maybe they got a kiss from their girlfriend, boyfriend or pet -- and feel happy, then perceive the tone to be "better". I've had that happen with the Kemper too. Same tone, but the dude somehow believes it's different. No, it isn't! You are!


    But yes I do prefer the Kemper in terms of consistency, no doubt about that. The reason I love it the most is that nobody can complain about the tone changing (even more so in my band..). My problem with the kemper is particular. You can even profile a pod xt and get the same, more congested low end. There is a level of consistency to the issue myself, @SonicExporer and others have been describing. I couldn't care less, at the end of the day, if the device is "close enough" for people I don't work with: in my own work for others and most importantly myself as a guitarist I'd definitely like to see profiling resolve this issue.


    Till then I definitely feel the need to use my own amps other than the Kemper when it's possible. Some people don't care as long as the kemper sounds good-- but a Bias fx vst can also do that, as can axe fx, as can others. What I want from the Kemper is the tone of my amp, close enough for me to be happy turning the kemper on and not bothering with my amp :)

    Now that is the discussion I would like to continue..


    @Dimi84


    For me it is exactly the reason why the KPA is so different from any other modeler and the favorite of the pros..


    If someone knows his stuff he will achieve a profile which keeps the "character of the rig".My client WILL recognize HIS sound he needs to be creative and to play the way he wants.He will get the exact reaction to his playing from his beloved tube rig.Will it be "slightly different"..maybe..but the "character",will be there.The KPA DOES react like the tube amp/cabinet which has been profiled corretcly/in a sufficient way.


    I would claim that this is completely out of question,no;


    Again..maybe the KPA may sound "slightly different" than many,many profiled amps BUT it still will sound as good as it needs to "get" the client playing his stuff without thinking "this is not my amp"..and this is all that counts.The KPA will feel,sound and play like the profiled amp ie its characteristics.


    And this is the "magic" of the KPA.

    Niko, do you consider the difference here to be unimportant?


    External Content youtu.be
    Content embedded from external sources will not be displayed without your consent.
    Through the activation of external content, you agree that personal data may be transferred to third party platforms. We have provided more information on this in our privacy policy.

    @Dimi84


    I cant decide this.I would need to play the amp and the profile.You know what I mean;


    We talk a lot about "difference" and "in the mix" and what ever but there are so many more parameters..


    The question is only if the difference in the vid you made does change your way of playing and the result of how good the recording/song/songwriting process or what ever pans out in the end.


    a)I played many profiles which have what @sinmix says..the "fingerprint" the wooden sound in some frequencies.In the lower mids or whatever..


    b)But I also played profiles which are so amazing that I just cant believe it.I cant stop playing,I cant sttop creating..same with most guitar players which hear/try my KPA..


    So which of both assesments is true;


    I will tell you:Both!


    Why;


    I dont know..yet.. ;(


    Lets find out.

    @Nikos yeap , deeeeeefinitely affects the way I play. Happens with the Laney, my orange, the two amps I use the most. I would say playing leads I feel a smaller difference. It's at chuggy riffs where personally the "feel" difference (which is a tonal difference as well) becomes obvious. Who knows. Maybe it's not that difficult to fix this and get better results with my amps (even post profile ,internally ) but I haven't been able to do it.

    :D:D:D:D:D
    wake me up guys when you reached page 100
    and please stop quoting me i'm done with this topic because it is absolutely a clear thing


    -> The Kemper has it's own tone, most of the time you can distinguish it easily but sometimes it is closer ...


    and the "kempersound" isn't always a bad thing ... but when it comes to creamy behaving amps the kemper is out of the game,
    that doesn't work ... and it isn't built to profile this BUT the reason people love certain vintage amps or highgain amps
    is the way they compress the signal at very high gain settings or how they behave ... all i'm asking for is a solution for that because, as you hear in the following clips, it doesn't have the be ultra fuzzy to get to the end of the kempers capabilitys ...


    even CK is in his interviews is very careful and sais things like "ALMOST 100%" or "95%" and things like that,
    and


    Very close to the Source sounds have: most of the time less bass/cream/gain


    I made sooo many profiles, over 200 now and it is always the same difference. Most of the time i don't care but when it comes to
    fuzz and cream and so on the sound is so far off no one can deny that, come on guys



    Here a Sample with lot's of "cream"

    External Content soundcloud.com
    Content embedded from external sources will not be displayed without your consent.
    Through the activation of external content, you agree that personal data may be transferred to third party platforms. We have provided more information on this in our privacy policy.



    Here with less gain and less Bass
    External Content soundcloud.com
    Content embedded from external sources will not be displayed without your consent.
    Through the activation of external content, you agree that personal data may be transferred to third party platforms. We have provided more information on this in our privacy policy.



    Clip 1
    I don't know how often i have to post this ... you can hear a clear difference and there is no cab on it that will cover up the mistakes of the kemper it simply can't do this type of gain



    Clip 2
    And the second closer part lacks a bit body and i you listen to the chords at the end of the riffing you also hear that the type of overdrive also is not spot on but very close ... but this close enough to be repairable cool to work with


    And here you hear a Fuzzpedal.
    It does not work, the second clip soudns more like a distortion then a fuzz ...

    External Content soundcloud.com
    Content embedded from external sources will not be displayed without your consent.
    Through the activation of external content, you agree that personal data may be transferred to third party platforms. We have provided more information on this in our privacy policy.


    Sorry for the big font size but i have the feeling the people turn my words around and do not clearly read what i write here


    It is possible to get very close und a view circumstances ... close means teh profile will have a more even distortion (less cream) it is a bit stiffer a bit less body ...


    If you profile a bassy fuzzy amp (and many vinatge amps have that characteristic) you'll rech the end of the kempers capabilities


    if you prefer a even overdrive and do not like fuzz or a low midrange fine! I do and i hope this will be fixed someday

    @Dimi84


    Keep on fighting... :D


    I always like to post this link
    http://www.badmuckingfastard.com/sound/slipperman.html


    ..of a madman who discusses the "difficulties" of recording a tube rig.It is funny too but the essence is that this guy is able to explain things I could not allthough I "hear" them and have done tube rigs recording trying instinctively what he talks about "cabinet involvement/participation" "speaker excursion","best sounding speaker" etc,etc..


    You need to read it in any case.

    Quote from Dimi84

    Didn't read through all the new posts yet. Why? Because as a "new" user I was busy recording a metal band. And guess what? I profiled their amp. Now if everything is so "trivial" you would think they'd be ok with using the kemper instead? I'll do work for them for a couple of weeks and it's just easier to do it with the kemper. So I a/b'd their guitarist. Real amp vs kemper. Also showed them how both sound within a mix. Result?


    He preferred the kemper profile to his amp :D Yeap. Why? Because "duuuuuuuuuude this will cut through the mix better" :D (As if we can't eq, but anyway). Aaaaaaaand he has a point. But for me.. that just goes on to show the differences that do exist. It's not just him who hears and feels them. Whether they are "trivial" or not, it's a matter of semantics -- for some of us they are definitely important.

    A lot of people in this thread can hear a difference, too. What does that prove? Does it prove that the differences aren't trivial? No, because we're not representative of most people. And adding a single voice from your anecdotal account to the comparatively small list of people who can hear the difference doesn't change that, either.


    Quote from Dimi84

    Now when it comes to the A/B test in the other thread... with the 7 segments.. The playing is somewhat particular. It's harder to tell the kemper apart from the real amp with this particular playing.

    It shouldn't be. He was palm muting all over the place.


    Quote from Dimi84

    But honestly, do you think you wouldn't be able to tell my laney from the profile (as in the video) in a similar test? I can play stuff that don't register a big enough of a difference. Yes, then it's trivial.

    Firstly, the amp in the blind test I posted may have something to do with why the differences aren't as identifiable. That amp was a JCM800, not a Laney. It stands to reason that the KPA is more accurate at profiling some amps than others, and at some settings vs others.


    Why do you keep posting the same clips when it's already been established that the KPA has a problem profiling fuzz?

    i got quoted again even though i posted and said already everything there is ...
    so please stop quoting me, i'm so done with that topic ( btw. why does the unsubscribe button not work? )


    i want this thread to be productive but this isn't possible i guess...


    the difference is there and we should discuss what to do and how to get around it
    and not that "he said she said" thing and youtube examples ... The Kemper is my fav. studio tool but
    ignoring and trivializing the limitations will just end up in unaccurate or simply unsatisfying sounds ...


    And be carefull not to use bigger sized fonts even though they are available in the editor -.- oh man @ColdFrixion could you please delete the quote? it seem to be a problem because of the fontsize ... i changed it but the qutoe still hast the big fontsize

    Quote from Bommel

    ignoring and trivializing the limitations will just end up in unaccurate or simply unsatisfying sounds ...

    Agreed.,,As will ignoring and trivializing limited understanding and experience of micing tube rigs.. ;)


    Self criticism can be as usefull as blaming others for their shortcomings.And to be honest..I still fail to see this selfcriticism by some guys who "blame" the profiler while they dont ask themselves if it is MAYBE some failure or mistake on their abilities and understanding of the complexity o the issue.


    The right mix will be the key to find better solutions.

    Quote from Bommel

    i got quoted again even though i posted and said already everything there is ...
    so please stop quoting me, i'm so done with that topic ( btw. why does the unsubscribe button not work? )

    If you're done with that topic, why do you keep talking about it? And if you've already said everything there is, why do you keep saying stuff? Anyway, if you post something I don't agree with, I'll likely respond. If you don't like it, no one's forcing you to read it, but please don't try and dictate what I can and can't respond to.


    Quote from Bommel

    i got quoted again the difference is there and we should discuss what to do and how to get around it

    If people knew what to do, they'd post solutions. Do you see any solutions? No? That's because people don't have any. If you have some, post them. If not, stating that you wish people would focus on solutions won't make them magically appear.

    i unsubscribed the topic but as soon as i get quoted it is still back at my news feed ... simply stop it ... answer normally


    i posted them also already ... and i guess if i post them another time you will answer again that i already posted this ... -> stop it please ...


    page 8? i don't know