Newbie question, what is the different between MERGED and DIRECT profile?

    Quote from adrimartadinata

    hi guys, Newbie question, what is the different between MERGED and DIRECT profile? thanks before :):)


    Hell adrimartadinata,


    Here are a couple of posts I wrote up, from earlier threads, to help someone with a similar question:


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    As far as your confusion over the types of profiles, here is summary / explanation:


    There are three (3) basic types of profiles.


    A) Studio -- This is the "normal" profile, and represents the vast majority of all the profiles out in the wild (including factory, commercial, and free). The Studio profile is a combination of the Amp and the mic'd Cabinet. In order to be able to switch (or remove) the Cabinet, the KPA has to figure out what contribution the "Cabinet" makes to the profile. To do this, the KPA employs an intelligent algorithm, called Cab Driver, which calculates and determines best approximation in order to separate the Cabinet from the Amp. It works amazingly well. However, Kemper saw opportunity to create a perfect separation, which leads us to Direct/Merged profiles, discussed next.


    B) Direct Amp -- This is a profile process that employs a suitable DI box. The DI box takes the signal from the speaker output of the Amp, and sends an XLR/line level signal to the Return Input on the Kemper for the profile process. The DI box needs to have a speaker thru connection which sends the amp's high voltage/high wattage speaker level signal on to the connected guitar cabinet (a tube amp needs to be connected to a load). There is no microphone connected to the KPA during the Direct Amp profiling process.


    C) Merged -- This requires a secondary step, after the Direct Amp profiling process. Immediately after capturing the Direct Amp profile, and without making any changes to the amp settings, a normal "Studio" profile is made. The KPA now has data from just the amp (Direct amp profile), as well as the combination Amp + Cab from the Studio profile. The person making the profile (i.e., the original author) then uses the MERGE function, and Merges the Direct and Studio profiles. This is now a Merged profile, which allows the KPA to perfectly separate and subtract the Cab part of the profile from the Amp. Obviously, if the person making the profile only wants the Direct Amp (no cabinet), then the second step and subsequent Merge procedure is not applicable.


    Currently, there isn't a way for the user to directly interrogate the KPA and have it discriminate between Studio and Merged profiles. Therefore, you have to get this information indirectly, before hand. If you are searching Rig Exchange/Rig Manager, the Name and/or description of the profiles should indicate if it is a Direct or Merged profile. If it does not specifically state Direct or Merged profile, than it is a Studio profile. Again, the vast majority of profiles out there are Studio profiles.


    You can also buy Direct/Merged profiles from many commercial profile vendors. Also, there is a Kemper Factory "Merged Rig Pack" that contains 49 Merged Profiles.



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    Merged profile = (Studio Profile + Direct Amp Profile).


    In other words, the Merged profile contains the "Studio" profile. The only difference, is that with a Merged profile, one is able to accurately subtract and separate the "Direct Amp" profile (which does not contain the mic'd cabinet), from the the full "Studio“ profile, which is a combination of both.


    Prior to the development and release of the "Merged" Profile format, the Kemper relied on an intelligent algorithm known as "Cab Driver", which calculates the portion of the normal (Studio) profile which represents the contribution of the reference cabinet. When you disable the Cabinet module, the Cab Driver algorithm is implemented, and it automatically subtracts the cabinet from the direct amp. While the Cab Driver algorithm works amazingly we||...it is still a bit of a compromise in terms of absolute authenticity. With the introduction of the 3.X firmware, the Merged Profile format provides the KPA with the ability distinguish and separate the "Amp" from the "Cabinet and Microphone" portions of the audio signal with 100% accuracy, and with no compromise.


    As an example, if you are playing a Merged profile, then you are getting the full and complete
    presentation of the "Studio" profile, which includes the reference cabinet and microphone. However, if you physically disable the "Cabinet" modu|e...then you simply get the "Direct Amp" (no cabinet, no microphone) profile.


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    Please read pages 28 thru 34 of the Kemper "Deeper View and Reference Manual 5.1" for more details. The manual can be downloaded in .pdf format, here:


    https://www.kemper-amps.com/downloads/5/User-Manuals


    Cheers,
    John

    Edited 2 times, last by Tritium ().

    Like 6

    I too am grateful for this explanation.


    When I received my Kemper, it was packed with profiles. I use my home studio's monitors to find stuff I want to try later through my V30 loaded cab. Generally it translates fairly well, but I think some of my disappointments have come from studio profiles. They don't seem to hit the cab the same way and I get buried in the mix.


    Most of my problem is not being able to crank the Kemper to test things out unless I want to buy an extra time at the rehearsal space. I think the knowledge here will at least save me a good amount of trial and error.

    Quote from Sunshine

    I too am grateful for this explanation.


    When I received my Kemper, it was packed with profiles. I use my home studio's monitors to find stuff I want to try later through my V30 loaded cab. Generally it translates fairly well, but I think some of my disappointments have come from studio profiles. They don't seem to hit the cab the same way and I get buried in the mix.


    Most of my problem is not being able to crank the Kemper to test things out unless I want to buy an extra time at the rehearsal space. I think the knowledge here will at least save me a good amount of trial and error.


    @adrimartadinata
    @Sunshine


    Glad to be of help.


    Cheers,
    John

    well if you have a powered kemper and go directly into a guitar cab, or if you want to go for sure that you don't mess up the micing and therefore the whole profile do direct profiles
    they are easier to make, sound more accurate imo, and when playing into guitar cabs they will soudn way better... but well just imo


    and i recommend not merging the cab but using good irs instead ... i don't know why but i'm happy with the results this way
    just get really good cabs like the jst cabs or the sinmix v-type are great too

    Quote from Bommel

    well if you have a powered kemper and go directly into a guitar cab, or if you want to go for sure that you don't mess up the micing and therefore the whole profile do direct profiles
    they are easier to make, sound more accurate imo, and when playing into guitar cabs they will soudn way better... but well just imo


    and i recommend not merging the cab but using good irs instead ... i don't know why but i'm happy with the results this way
    just get really good cabs like the jst cabs or the sinmix v-type are great too

    Are the direct profiles with a quality cab IR near as good as a studio profile? I don't want to sacrifice my FOH tone for the sake of stage sound.

    Hmmm good question. ...


    Well i record this way and like the sound very much, in fact my favorite profile is a direct profile with a ir, so i like it more actually ...
    But i don't know how to answer your question properly i would need a ir of my own cab and then make direct and standart profiles. but that is not possible for me sadly.


    But maybe this answers your question a bit
    https://www.dropbox.com/sh/ta4…tdXbZBBdE2jIRStSXb0a?dl=0
    these are my profiles and just try it the mesa, engl invader and victory profiles are all the same amps only that they are available as direct and studio profiles with different cabs ...
    that is the closest i can get to answer your question ^^ but maybe it helps

    oh and you don't have to take irs you can also take cabs of other profiles they work out great too but to not merge them... that sounds strange sometimes ...

    This is awesome. Thank you so much for sharing.


    What do you suggest as far as cab IRs? I have a feeling this will be the way to go if I start using mainly direct profiles.

    Quote from Sunshine

    Oh wow. You have a ton of stuff in there! I see you have a lot of Axe II stuff. That is the most intriguing concept to me, profiling a modeler..


    Hello Sunshine,


    IMHO, the best way to adapt a Direct Amp profile for use with a FRFR monitor it to utilize the wonderful Cabinet profiles that already exist in your KPA (assuming you have the normal complement of stock factory profiles).


    All you need to do, is load up the Direct Amp profile that you want to work with. Then, enable the Cabinet Module, by clicking on the Cabinet soft button.*


    Once the display menu is showing the Cabinet menu...simply use the BROWSE knob, to switch and audition through various Cabinets. As soon as you turn the BROWSE knob, you will see at the top of the display menu the option to browse through cabinet "Presets" or "All Rigs". Select "All Rigs" as the browse option. Then, you will see all the specific Cabinet Modules from all your Rigs in the menu, which you can scroll through and audition.


    Once you find a Cabinet module that you like and sounds good with your current Direct Amp profile, hit STORE and then STORE AS a choose a new Rig name (you pick the name). Hit STORE once again, and boom, you now have an new "Studio" profile that incorporates and combines your Direct Amp profile with your selected Cabinet profile.


    Cheers,
    John




    *Note: If you are connecting to your FRFR monitor via the KPA's Monitor Out...make sure the "Monitor-Cab/Off" parameter is not active (enabled), in the OUTPUT Menu settings.

    Thank you for the insight. I will be going powered Kemper output to a 2x12 Avatar signature cab with V30s. The main will go to FOH when applicable. From my experience so far, real direct profiles seem to work better with my cab than studio profiles with the cab turned off. Some work better than others, but many do not translate well to the cab at rehearsal & gig volumes. They often translate a bit veiled and often just don't have the attack response that my band wants.


    Some studio profiles work better than others. The Avatar signature cab is big and prob darker then a vintage style cab. I have used the output EQ and it helps with some profiles, but other just don't have guts for some reason.


    Case in point, a member gave me a Friedman BE100 profile that blew me away while recording, but it just couldn't hack it live. I was turning the volume up enough where I started worrying about the speakers. I switched over to a JCM800 DI profile and it was a huge difference.

    Quote from Sunshine

    Thank you for the insight. I will be going powered Kemper output to a 2x12 Avatar signature cab with V30s. The main will go to FOH when applicable. From my experience so far, real direct profiles seem to work better with my cab than studio profiles with the cab turned off. Some work better than others, but many do not translate well to the cab at rehearsal & gig volumes. They often translate a bit veiled and often just don't have the attack response that my band wants.
    Some studio profiles work better than others. The Avatar signature cab is big and prob darker then a vintage style cab. I have used the output EQ and it helps with some profiles, but other just don't have guts for some reason.


    Case in point, a member gave me a Friedman BE100 profile that blew me away while recording, but it just couldn't hack it live. I was turning the volume up enough where I started worrying about the speakers. I switched over to a JCM800 DI profile and it was a huge difference.


    Well, that is why you should focus on acquiring MERGED profiles. It is the perfect solution, as you have the Direct Amp portion that you send to your Avatar Cab, while you send the full blown Studio portion of the rig/profile to FOH.