Playing Feel n Response compared to SW Plugins

    Hello, I'm about to move to Japan and I was wondering ( since I don't own a Kemper ) how different playing thru a Kemper would be in comparison to using sw amp sims in terms of feeling. I currently use a Friedman PT20 > Suhr Reactive Load > Audio Interface > DAW and I find it much better than via amp sims ( feeling and tone wise ), but it will be too much to bring them to Japan so I'm looking for alternatives.


    Of course, via sw amp sim, I will not have to carry anything besides my laptop, but I'm never happy enough with the feeling part and also drive sounds aren't near the real thing, unless your into high gain. I'm more of an overdrive guy and use the volume and tone knobs for semi clean sounds.


    ps. I believe the Kemper is also an Audio Interface, so I won't need to carry my AI as well, right?

    Welcome, Ken!


    No, it's not an interface, mate. The USB port is used for communication with the Rig Manager app and also for accommodating a Kemper-formatted USB stick for backup / sharing purposes.


    IMHO, the feel side of things is night-and-day between Kemper and onboard-computer sims; I'm confident you'll be very-happy in this regard, and tonally too.

    With all due respect to @Monkey_Man, who is one of users I like and respect here, personally I don't think the difference is night and day between something like S gear 2 and Kemper. People can compare the best plexi from Kemper to S gear... Or even try profiling S gear. I would not say Kemper is better when it comes to these tones.


    However that said It's simpler for me to manage recording with kemper where I don't have to worry about latency and what not. That's a major factor. Also because with my set-up the latency is higher than when using kemper, the feel of kemper is considerably more "immediate" (but this is not due to the quality of amp simulation imho). In a better set up, which I use from time to time, S gear is very close to "perfection" for me.


    Now that being said -- Kemper has a much, much wider range of tones. So you have a wider palette from which to pick from; and you wont get comparable "feel" from the few amp sims of S gear in contrast to the many kinds of tones that Kemper offers. So even if I think the quality of amp sims is very close, this does not quite put them in the same realm, not even if you consider that one is only software.


    These are my two drachmas at least.

    Thanks Monkey_Man,


    What a surprise it's not an interface, but in the other-hand maybe on purpose in order to free the onboard processor? Great to hear that the Kemper has more of an Amp feel than the sw alternatives! I'll definitely check the Kemper once there in JP ... based on YT vidz and comparing Kemper / Helix / Axe FX ... I had the impression that Kemper is more close to a real amp than the other too, including the usability part. Appears that you have more options with Helix and Axe, but that doesn't count for me because I normally use just a few sounds ( Drive and Semi clean ).

    And I mention S gear because that's for me the best software sim for "feel" and plexi tones too.

    Quote from Dimi84

    With all due respect to @Monkey_Man, who is one of users I like and respect here, personally I don't think the difference is night and day between something like S gear 2 and Kemper. People can compare the best plexi from Kemper to S gear... Or even try profiling S gear. I would not say Kemper is better when it comes to these tones.

    I was talking about the feel of playing, Dimi; I was very-specific about this, mate. For me, latency completely kills feel.


    Quote from Dimi84

    However that said It's simpler for me to manage recording with kemper where I don't have to worry about latency and what not. That's a major factor. Also because with my set-up the latency is higher than when using kemper, the feel of kemper is considerably more "immediate" (but this is not due to the quality of amp simulation imho). In a better set up, which I use from time to time, S gear is very close to "perfection" for me.

    Yep. That's what I was talking about, and I agree, mate. Even compared to the hardware sims I'd used over 20 years, the sense of immediacy struck me straight away.


    Quote from Dimi84

    Now that being said -- Kemper has a much, much wider range of tones. So you have a wider palette from which to pick from; and you wont get comparable "feel" from the few amp sims of S gear in contrast to the many kinds of tones that Kemper offers. So even if I think the quality of amp sims is very close, this does not quite put them in the same realm, not even if you consider that one is only software.

    ... and this is why I said I thought Ken would be happy tonally too. I also took into account the fact that he wasn't interested in high-gain sounds, which I figured covered me as far as potential criticism thereof is concerned.


    All-in-all, I think it's safe to conclude that we're not in disagreement, Brother Dimi. ;)

    Quote from Monkey_Man

    All-in-all, I think it's safe to conclude that we're not in disagreement, Brother Dimi.

    I was a bit unclear (it's like 3 am here... and cannot sleep still). I am referring to feel as well from the start,


    But I think: we can differentiate between 1) "bad feel" caused by latency and 2) "Bad feel" due to the amp sim itself.


    IF the latency using something like S gear 2 is fine, I don't think, say, an MBritt plexi from kemper is better in terms of "feel". At the very least not by a big margin.


    If the latency is off to a level that can be felt, then the "feel" changes" considerably, and that's where kemper gains ground over such a sim imho.


    But the amp sim itself (in this case a plexi in s gear) has amazing feel -- for me at least. The nuances matter and it's such a personal evaluation. For me S gear is quite a marvel considering how long this sim has been out.


    Cheerios @money_man

    Edited once, last by Dimi84 ().

    Like 2

    One of the things I never could fix on amp sims, is that single notes always sounded thin. Ok, maybe it's like asking too much, but it does bother me.


    And yes, there are amps, even valve amps, that sound thin no matter what also!


    There will probably be thin sounded profiles as well, but my hope is you have the ones with the character I like too?


    I just have 1 amp, so I don't see myself profiling amps and that brings another doubt: is Kemper too much? Maybe there could be a Kemper "Player" only version? so all you do is load profiles and EQ ?


    Oh, Dōitashimashite monkey_man :)

    You could try lowering Definition and adding a little Amp Compression (both parameters are in the Amp menu - hold the Amp button for a second), Ken.


    I'm just guessing, but in theory this should help beef up individual notes and cause them to sustain longer, the latter effect adding to the impression that they're thicker.


    Also, setting the tube parameters to give more even-order harmonics might help as well. You'll have to check the manual as I can't remember which direction (to turn the knob) is which - one direction provides progressively-more even-order harmonics, the other odd. These settings are also in the Amp menu.

    Just a quick update to this post ... although the main subject here is about Kemper, I decided to try S-Gear and I must say that among all the sw amp sims I've tested before, this one is really close to a real amp. Yes, I still feel higher notes thinner than an amp, but not in a way I couldn't live with it. Plus it has e very 'organic' or less synthetic/artificial feel to it.


    At this stage where amp sims or hw sims are, maybe it's not about comparing it to the real thing, but to learn its strengths and make good use of it. I'm on the 15 trial days and I'll probably buy this one, so I can then slowly and carefully test the Kemper and maybe other hw gear, and only then make a better decision with no rush.

    Edited 2 times, last by KenACwb ().

    Like 1
    Quote from Monkey_Man

    Why not just Profile the S-Gear plugin, Ken san?

    Wow, I didn't know you could do that w/ KEMPER, but remember I still don't have one yet, I'll wait until I get to Japan. But this idea led me to think about, is it legal to profile someone else's sw? and I haven't thought about, is it legal to profile an amp? Probably yes otherwise Kemper wouldn't exist, right? I believe in regards to the stock profiles that come with Kemper, probably some royalties go to the amp manufacturer?


    Can I profile pedals with Kemper? Maybe a dumb question here, but... who knows? Actually that Xtomp Pedal is some kind of profiler I think, except that the user don't profile anything, but just download profiles of pedals.

    Yep, you can Profile hardware-amp sims as well as software ones, hardware and software EQ's, compressors, preamps, and anything else that doesn't introduce time-feedback loops such as phasers, chorus, delay and reverb.


    Any latency is removed altogether from the Profile, as a bonus.


    No, there's no issue with copyright, as long as you don't sell the Profiles using the original names of the plugins or units they're made from. You can share them on the Rig Exchange (free) with any name you like 'cause you're not profiting from the exercise, although it's best in this case to use the proper description for accuracy's sake; Kemper and users will appreciate that 'cause everyone's got his own ideas when it comes to substituting cryptic names. There's really no need for that unless, as I said, you're selling and profiting from them.


    As far as I know no royalties are paid for the factory Profiles; you'll notice that they use cryptic names, and of course they're not being sold. They do, however, provide some exposure for amp companies and some Profilers alike.


    I'm excited for you, Ken san, not just 'cause of your impending Kemper but 'cause you're going to be living where I've always wanted to myself. I dream about it every day!

    I can confirm the great feel while using a laptop + KPA solution on inexpensive monitor like the HS series from Yamaha ( even cheaper in Japan ? ) , you'll gat all tha amps dynamics, even more sometimes.


    single notes always fine , all kinds of tone and FXes in a single little box , it's a fantastic tool.


    That said once a track is recorded S-Gear and KPA , it gives very similar results , especially on plexis. I use Sgear for a lighter solution when traveling and loved it so far, but I'm still happy to get back to the KPA fur much more options/ amps and the real amp feel.

    I have profiled the plexi in S gear. I prefer the S gear amp to the profile of S gear for both feel and tone easily if latency is ok.


    So for me I would much rather use a profile of an amp, with great cab + great micing rather than a profile of S gear.