Studio Monitors Issue and FRFR Advice

It could be that you simply like the sound of the KRK over the Yamahas. But if you don't have any room treatment that could be the reason why you prefer the sound over headphones.

But for starters here's the monitor setup guide from Genelec: https://www.genelec.com/docume…itor_Setup_Guide_2011.pdf

I really like the sound through my Focals, I just have the smaller CMS 50's but even with that it's still a nice meaty tone.

Hi Pedalo,

i've got a set up not too different from yours - Kemper Powered Toaster, Yamaha HS8 monitors, akg K240 headphones, focusrite scarlett interface. Plus I have a rockerverb 100 mkIII and pedal board that I thought of selling after getting the kemper. (more on that later)

Couple quick thoughts:

- Sound perception is always subjective but good quality profiles to me pretty much always sound good or great through the headphones, even at relatively low volume. I believe this is because the phones are almost right up against your ear, so you "feel" the tone and low end push even when volumes are quite low

- at similarly low volumes on my HS8 monitors, the sound is not so satisfying, but I have gotten used to it over time and understand why it doesn't feel as good as the headphones. BUT when I pump up the volume when going through the monitors (not quite rattling the windows but to where you can feel the thump in your body a little), I am satisfied with the sound. So question how loud have your pushed things going through our HS5s? being as theses are 5inch woofers versus the 8inch in my set, you probably won't get the kind of thump you are used to, especially not coming from being a rockerverb player (hee hee, I know the feeling, the rockerverb mkIII is an absolute beast and I guess you have maybe a 2x12 or even a 4x12 cab you run that baby through? If so, no way your HS5 can compete with that feeling. but headphone can)

- Check if you have the Space param set to headphones only (Output menu page 5, the "Space>HeadphOnly" box should be unchecked if you want the space param to also apply to the main outs, not just headphones). Because that can colour your perception and make the phones experience feel more "deep" versus the monitors (main outs) experience. So do check that.

Hope it helps!

PS: I also thought of selling my rockerverb at first, but after more thought, I'd say, hey if you can afford to keep yours, don't rush to sell it. Great as the kemper is (and I LOVE mine to bits), the rockerverb MK3 is one incredible amp and the build quality is so good, it will last a lifetime. It's capable of many many great tones. It's OK to love the kemper and still love your tube orange (I know you said you didn't feel as satisfied with the orange after getting the kemper but it could be some honeymoon effect so give the orange more time to do it's thing).

Hi there again! glad you are making progress and I definitely know the feeling of really don't need to have more gear (but it would still be nice to have.... hee hee).

I don't think you mentioned whether you were running your headphones direct out from the kemper phone out or from your focusrite phones out - that would make a difference to when comparing to monitors running out from the focusrite. I do find the focusrite adds some colouration (mine does, not much but it does add some)

Other thing I didn't say earlier is now I run the kemper into a small 4 channel mackie mixer and then monitors are running off that. So I don't run into the focusrite at all for this part of the chain. I did initially go into the focusrite and use that as a mixer but wasn't too happy with the result. The mackie (it's a 402 VLZ4) is a pretty low cost mixer and I find it doesn't colour the sound at all (having run A/B tests going direct from Kemper to monitors or headphones and going through the mixer first to monitor or phones).

So basically I don't have the focusrite as part of the chain for what I hear from the monitors. Instead I go into the focusrite via S/PDIF and the focusrite into my Mac for recording. Having the mixer also allows me to run other stuff in like external mp3 to jam along to without relying on my PC or the focusrite. Just a lot of flexibility that way.

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I have to say that when I was auditioning for new monitors a short while ago I was persuaded to spend some time listening to a number of Yamaha monitors, I really did not like them and found them weak in the midrange and rather unflattering to guitars. I ended up with a pair of Adam A7x's and a Sub 8.and have been very happy with how the Guitar sounds. The A7X has a really smooth top end thanks to the rather wonderful ribbon tweeter. They also present a very detailed midrange. However I did find that on their own I wanted a little more depth of bass - hence the Sub 8. To be honest I did not like the sound of my guitar on the Yamaha's. Maybe you need to go out with some reference tracks and listen to a few monitors to see which ones suit you.

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Quote from Dean_R

Yamaha's philosophy with monitors is accuracy, with that not everything sounds good and if you get it to sound good then you have more assurance that it will sound good on most other devices. Other monitors that have sweeteners added and extra bass, as some do, aren't accurate and even though they sound good , they can sound off on other media devices, so it's a balancing act to decide which ones are better for one's purposes.

Actually what I am trying to say is that the Yamaha speakers are not very accurate. They are not detailed enough in the midrange and are a bit too bland. They did not reveal much about the mixes I fed through them. The A7X's are much more revealing of poor source material. They really have improved the quality and transfer-ability of my mixes onto other systems. I you have heard the original Yamaha NS10's they sounded horrible - but if you could get your track to sound good on them it would sound good on anything. However they are not a pleasant monitor to listen to.

It won't surprise me if the Adams; are better as they're at least double the price of the yamaha so the components are hopefully better. Regarding the midrange , I'm not sure how true that is but if you with the mid EQ +2 the HS50 become close to the NS10s. For mixing however, room treatment can't be overlooked.
Getting back the the Yamaha, I listen to some all time popular records and some sound terrible while others sound really good, so they seem accurate enough as they don't make everything sound great.

Quote from pedalo

I could still do with some advice on where is best to manage the db (from the kemper, forte or yamaha hs5 volume controls).

Also is it best to use the main outs to the two forte instrument cables?

That was how I was doing it previously when I went from Kemper (both main outs) to Focusrite Scarlett (6i6) - went into the 2 instrument inputs. Set the level on the scarlett to just below where it would clip.

Volume control to monitors was then managed from within the focusrite control software (on PC or Mac, mac in my case) which is basically like a software based mixer.

Things I didn't like with this set up:

1) if you then turn up the master volume on the kemper (assuming you have kept master linked to main outs), this drives a stronger signal to the focusrite and makes it clip unless you back gain down on the focusrite. but then you might have the signal too low for other profiles and there's still the volume control in the software based mixer to balance. So too many volume control variables I found.

2) Plus I wanted an aux in for mp3 (usually coming from a smartphone or tablet) - yes you can use the alt input and return input on the kemper as an aux in (and I did try that too), but then you need to manage the volume level via the output menu for the aux in (if left linked to master volume, too hard to manage given master is also controlling output of the main guitar signal).

Solution for my case was "simple" (but yes, did require 1 more piece of gear but relatively low cost and overall a great investment for me) - a small 4 channel mackie mixer. So signal chain is now:

Kemper Main outs
->
Mixer input 1 and input 2, gain level set at unity, eqs set flat (just using 2 standard instrument cables, no noise issues)
->
Mixer main outs L and R to monitors. Mixer main outs level set to unity. Monitor volume I leave at +4db, the "default" mid knob position.
Mixer headphone out also set to "unity" (which is the midway point on my mixer).

So now just one place to control volume that is heard through the monitors, which is the kemper master volume (assuming it's kept linked to main outs).

External mp3 goes into channel 3 and 4 on the mixer (so I retain stereo). My mixer (and most mixers probably would have too) also has an additional stereo out, which could be what feeds into the focusrite interface for recording.

In my case, I use S/PDIF out from the kemper and the scarlett has SPDIF in. Since your forte doesn't have S/PDIF, if you do get a mixer with an additional stereo out (on top of it's main outs) then you would all set that way too. Alternative would be to use monitor out or direct out from the kemper to your interface if you did get a mixer or have one that doesn't have additional outputs on top of main outs.

Importantly for me, I have found with this set up, there is no gain boost or loss introduced by the mixer (nor the focusrite interface since it's not part of the chain), nor tone colouration. It sounds exactly like what I would get going from the kemper direct to monitors or the kemper direct headphone out. So I don't have to second guess myself whether a profile I am trying out really sounds that way or is something in my signal chain changing the levels or colouring the tone.

Finally, I also want to run my DAW monitoring via the yammy monitors of course, which is simple with the mixer - output from PC/Mac goes into aux in on the mixer, which has it's own level/volume control. Also means I can listen to music using the yammies while working.

Sorry for long story, I know it doesn't directly map to your situation (of going direct to the forte interface) - just sharing what has worked well for me as I have tried the direct to interface method like you for a while, and just found if too cumbersome to get the manage the levels for everyday playing/practice/recording.

Quote from Dean_R

It won't surprise me if the Adams; are better as they're at least double the price of the yamaha so the components are hopefully better.

I was thinking the same thing. Doesn't seem a fair comparison for this class of yamaha monitors to go up against the adams. I'm happy with my HS8s although indeed a pair of adams sure would be nice to have...

With the Rokerverb you need to connect the monitor out to the effects return and disable the cabinet section on the front as you are already using a speaker. I use my Egnater Rebel 20 this way and get a great sound from it.