Rig concept: Kemper in a W/D/W rig

    As always, I am trying to complicate my setup (being a single guitar player in a band is fun!), so I was contemplating a wet/dry/wet rig using the Kemper. @ashtweth raving about the benefits of the Kemper in glorious studio haven't helped my dreaming either 8)


    What's the need? Well, I was thinking that with a device like the Kemper, it's an absolute shame to be unable to use the wonderful stereo FX in a live setting.


    So I was wracking my brain trying to think of how to use the Kemper in stereo while playing live? I started figuring that if I could get a dry tone to sit alongside the Kemper on both sides of the stereo spectrum, perhaps the tone would not be so lost. The stereo FX, sure, but the tone would at least come through, or so I thought. And since the Kemper is capable of feeding a PA system as well as cabs simultaneously, it might be a really interesting tone at the FOH as well.


    This was the setup I was thinking of:


    Guitar -> Strymon Deco -> DS Custom Dual Amp Box -> Mark V/Kraken/Archon/Sig:X/VH4 -> 4x12" -> (FX LOOP) -> Noise Gate
    -> Kemper Profiler -> Camplifier/Matrix GT800/1000FX -> Stereo Matrix CFR12s/Laney FR12s/Line 6 Power Cabs/Etc


    A cool possibility is profiling the actual head that is being used in the centre (or just getting a free/commercial profile) and running that through the Kemper. I think this would be more like the traditional W/D/W setup with just one amp that is routed through three cabs.


    Acquiring some of the gear is going to take me some time though haha. I have all the amps and the Kemper. But my Kemper is unpowered. Been meaning to either get a power amp (I really like the idea of getting a Camplifier and just putting it in the slot in the back, but there's also a GT800 and GT1000 in the vicinity for less/a little more) and FRFR monitors, or getting active FRFR cabs like the Laneys.


    This should be easier to cart around (depending on the chosen tube amp), since it just requires two heads. Since the Kemper is stereo and has great FX, it should suffice as both wet sides, while the tube amp will be the dry tone.


    I know that most of the users here will point out that most guitar sounds on stage are just mono through a single cab. And even the more extreme setups would involve the Kemper feeding the PA system with a stereo signal, with maybe a stereo cab/active cab setup on stage.


    But to the guys using two DXRs, two CLRs, etc, is three cabs such a big stretch from two? And (very important) what does it sound like? @808illest, you have some nice amps, how about giving it a try for a brother? :thumbup:


    Also, does anyone want to try out the concept on stage? :w00t:

    AJ i just wanna say your right as usual about me saving from not buying profiles and getting an Apollo, some of us listen to you my brother ;) , when i started with ONE stereo cab i thought it was the niche shite and nothing could compare but having TWO stereo cabs each side now makes me forget how much money i spent, if that makes sense...dood if your ever in oz i need to record 2 stereo cabs to show you guys what i mean, maybe monkey can do it, i would not know where to start, look AJ try one stereo cab, when you add 2 each side man you hear freq you would never imagine, does it make you Want to wrtie music?


    Yes it Fuggin does man :P , the rigs just breath man, thats enough of my BS for now :D


    Ash

    Have a beer and don't sneer. -CJ. Two non powered Kempers -Two mission stereo FRFR Cabs - Ditto X4 -TC electronic Mimiq.

    I run two CLRs from the main outs and a 4x12 for pant flapping from the Kemper Poweramp - it is glorious.


    But with big ping ponging delays my neck ends up like one of those jibba jabba toys wobbling about tracking where all the pings and pongs are coming from.


    I only do this at the practice room - as its just too much gear for my drummer to unload for me live.

    PRS Custom 22's - Fender Strats - Diezel VH4 - Carol Ann OD2 - Toneking Imperial MK2 - Colin the Kemper - CLR Neo ii.

    Like 1

    thank you for posting that, maybe now these guys wont think i am crazy for bashing them every post with this 8o ..now imagine when the new reverbs hit... :thumbup:


    Ash

    Have a beer and don't sneer. -CJ. Two non powered Kempers -Two mission stereo FRFR Cabs - Ditto X4 -TC electronic Mimiq.

    I wasn't bothering with the actual cab for years - I was MORE than happy with two monitors - but after unloading from a gig and turning up to the practice room with just Kemper, I just plugged into the 4x12 - a DI profile - and I'd really forgotten the last 20 years of awesome power from standing in front of a real cab!


    It's totally impractical for live - but in rehearsal - it feels godlike!!


    And tbh...unless you're touring 8 months a year....90% of being in a band is being in the rehearsal room innit!

    PRS Custom 22's - Fender Strats - Diezel VH4 - Carol Ann OD2 - Toneking Imperial MK2 - Colin the Kemper - CLR Neo ii.

    Like 1

    Usually running main outs to FOH - and when it isn't a mono system its sounds wonderful out front. I have a performance set up for stereo FOH (specific stereo effects) and if it is a mono system (like most) another performance set up for suitable mono effects. I run a single CLR if its a smaller stage or quick change gigs, or two to monitor in stereo if its somewhere that we will be having a proper soundcheck. One quality monitor is enough for me - though hearing your stuff in stereo is VERY inspiring - and leads to many many meandering wanders into improv! :)


    I've never tried IEMs - I'd really like to as that would be stereo everywhere - but don't think they will be headbang proof. And I don't fancy wearing a sweatband or summat just to keep them in!

    PRS Custom 22's - Fender Strats - Diezel VH4 - Carol Ann OD2 - Toneking Imperial MK2 - Colin the Kemper - CLR Neo ii.

    Hi,
    If you did run IEMs, perhaps you could send your monitor out mono signal to the desk and your main outs to the desk in stereo . I think you could then have the wet signal (just Stereo fx and reverb) on right and left side with mono fx and stack (dry) in the centre.
    If you have a sound engineer, she could then blend the wet and dry to suit the house. I’m not sure how you might control the balance yourself from a foot pedal? I suppose morphing might do this?
    The Manuel says:-
    When Source is set to “DLY/REV wet” for a stereo output, it will deliver only the wet stereo effect signal of delay and
    reverb effects from the DLY and REV Modules. If you set the source of the Direct Output to “Stack” or “Mod”, which

    • is the complementary dry signal, then you can send your amp signal to the front mixing desk through three cables. Your front mixer can now mix the effect signal to the dry signal, according to the actual room ambience of the venue. This method is called the wet/dry/wet setup. Your mixer will love you for that! And, you can still use the Monitor Output separately from all of this for your individual stage sound!

    I hope this helps in some way for those who don’t wish to hump around loads of speakers, huge as they may sound... :)
    Cheers
    Pre-Amp


    This is a great trick, thanks for pointing that out in the manual! :thumbup:


    Still, the premise still holds that using two or three amps may be better than one. Why? You can blend tones! This should not be underestimated. I know that Joe Bonamassa does it all the time, Steve Morse, Alex Lifeson has done it, possibly Stevie Ray Vaughn. Not sure, but I'm sure others have done it too. Let's not forget that devices like the Axe FX and Helix allow users to do this. Is it necessary? Debatable, but I think it's really cool.


    Pro tip: User @ashtweth derives his sick tones using two Kempers in stereo. :D


    2) Routing of FX: Brian May used to use three amps. He'd route his pedalboard into the first delay, with the dry signal going out to one amp. Then the wet signal would be fed into a second delay, with the second delay's dry out (actually the same as the first delay's wet out) into a second amp, and the second delay's wet output into the third amp. This is the setup he used to generate the multiple guitar illusion during the Brighton Rock solo and also when doing Keep Yourself Alive. (taken from someone's post on progressiveears.org).


    I think this is definitely possible using the serial delay on the Kemper, or possibly one of the other delays on the Kemper.


    Still, what if I wanted something like the ballerina preset on one side of my WDW rig and a completely different delay pattern on the other side? Now I know, this sounds like an excessive and really crazy example, and it is indeed extreme. Still, let us never limit ourselves to not trying out crazy shite like Brian May. :w00t:


    He'd route his pedalboard into the first delay, with the dry signal going out to one amp. Then the wet signal would be fed into a second delay, with the second delay's dry out (actually the same as the first delay's wet out) into a second amp, and the second delay's wet output into the third amp. This is the setup he used to generate the multiple guitar illusion during the Brighton Rock solo and also when doing Keep Yourself Alive


    3) Soundmen: There are a lot of occasions where we don't have the benefit of a good soundman though, or there is no soundman at all at the gig either. For guys like me who play very small gigs where sometimes what we have on stage is what the audience hears, it's important to be able to provide all the required sounds. Heck, I'd also like to hear what I'm giving the audience.


    Check out this video by Rabea Massad using his stereo rig:

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    I note that the biggest drawback of this setup is just the freaking trouble in getting it out of the house and to wherever you're going. But from all the accounts I've read of people carting more than one amp to band practice or the gig, they've had good experiences.

    I ran my dual rec into a Mesa 4x12 with Vintage 30's, my YJM100 into a 69 Marshall 4x12 with Greenbacks and a 73' Big Muff into a Fender twin with Jensen's at the same time and it killed. However, I just couldn't pack all that stuff around anymore so I just use a half stack these days when jamming. I've since sold off my Lehle switcher and most every pedal lol. For small live gigs I run the KPA into the two DXR10's. Waaaay easier and it just sounds great.

    Quote from 808illest

    I ran my dual rec into a Mesa 4x12 with Vintage 30's, my YJM100 into a 69 Marshall 4x12 with Greenbacks and a 73' Big Muff into a Fender twin with Jensen's at the same time and it killed. However, I just couldn't pack all that stuff around anymore so I just use a half stack these days when jamming. I've since sold off my Lehle switcher and most every pedal lol. For small live gigs I run the KPA into the two DXR10's. Waaaay easier and it just sounds great.


    Two hundred watt amps, two 4x12s and a heavy combo? Jeez, I would never even attempt that even though I have a couple of nice 100-watt heads. No way I could move that stuff in the first place.


    I will note that you say that it killed. That's been my experience when I went stereo, and I think that a W/D/W rig will sound even bigger.


    I was considering an alternative setup to further complicate things.


    Guitar -> Deco -> Voodoo Labs Amp Selector -> Kemper Profiler -> 1xActive Cab
    -> Mark V:25 -> EVM12L 1x12" Cab -> FX LOOP Noise Gate
    -> PRS Archon -> Combo Speaker -> FX LOOP Noise Gate -> Glass Nexus


    Should be small enough to load on to a cart. I'm guessing it would all weigh less than 50kg, which is not bad for three amps and cabs.


    And the whole setup should be quite loud if necessary.


    This is another cool video.


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    And this one made me smile :)


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    2 rigs (at once ) give each of the single rigs an advantage that you cant get with a single rig set up, (better mids, blah) i think i have had the advantage as I have TWO stereo fields , so Rabea has a mono rig each side, i have a stereo rig each side.


    Stereo - Stereo :rolleyes::D , i have tried 2 DXR's to make a mono each side to = Stereo.
    But soon as you use a rig on a stereo mission cab one side, then a different rig in a stereo cab on the other= unique tone
    its still not the same as just a mono speaker each side to make a stereo field.


    When have we ever has the opportunity to get a stereo cab?
    When? This is why i cant fathom why people wont buy stereo cabs (waste of the kemper IMHO)


    Yes the field is wider and more freq's (IMHO) come out.
    I may just have to get a video camera with a good recording mic to show you guys


    BTW..guess what James H from Metallica uses?
    Mesa AND a Diezel amp to make ONE sound (he uses it in his AXEFX)
    they use more than one AXE FX BTW...


    Ash

    Have a beer and don't sneer. -CJ. Two non powered Kempers -Two mission stereo FRFR Cabs - Ditto X4 -TC electronic Mimiq.

    Like 2

    Check out this switcher too: http://www.palmer-germany.com/…-Amp-Selector-PTRIAGE.htm


    Might be easier to find the Voodoo one though? I still highly recommend Lehle, best yet I think.


    What about running two SS power amps and a power conditioner in a 3U? I mean try it with your amps loops first but you could consider this as an alternative for further weight/space reduction and non colored rigs. You'd still need cabs. Active cabs are what persuaded me to a non-powered rack Kemper (with the option of getting a Matrix when I need it). Those stereo mission cabs are dope! Plus, Paul is a great guy over there. If you email him he will actually give you a call. Had I known sooner and if I didn't have my DXR's already, I would have gotten those as he offered me "artist" pricing. Cool guy for sure! Great sounding cabs. :thumbup: