Some Looper Thougths/Propositions...

    Hi guys,


    Since the discussion for the Foot Controller, I'm thinking about the "Looper" feature and how it could be include and make the KPA even better.
    Everyone is different, so please, don't toss me a stone if you don't like the idea, just elaborate on why it wouldn't be great for you and what you would like better :)


    Just to illustrate my thinking, I attach the draft I did (because it has 3 rows instead). Note it could also work with 2 rows of switches.


    [Blocked Image: http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7088/7130461811_8b1915b9f6.jpg]


    Let's say we have a "Looper" switch on the Foot Controller as well as the Stomps, Effects and/or Presets switches (let's called them: 1, 2, 3, 4)
    On the LCD screen we could see the feature of these switches (Intro/Chorus/Verse for the Presets and/or Pedal type for the Stomps, etc...)


    If we simply press "Looper" (Maybe Press-hold for 1 second if you prefer??), we will enter in the Looper Mode, and we will get on the screen: Record, Stop/Play, Back to Zero and Undo and it will be used by the 1,2,3,4 switches.


    The Looper will get 8 "Tracks" with the XMDR and ABCD switches. Let's use the first track and press Record, you play the guitar and press record again (just like any Looper) now it goes on for ever until you press Stop/Play. You can start it again if you Stop/Play again.


    You can of course undo a take by pressing undo. If you want add more stuff on this track, just press Record and it will over-write (non-destructive with the undo button).


    Back to Zero will just help you to "play from start" on-the-fly... (maybe we could use the Tap for that feature if you want another important feature I forgot).


    If you select another of the 8 Tracks, you can record something else. If you want change your sounds (or even presets), you can just press "Looper" to go back to your Rig setup, add a stomps, add some effects, etc... and go back to the Looper (even if it's playing).


    So what's the point to have 8 Tracks would you say?


    The point if that we could build some Sequence with the Bank/Song switches. If you press "Bank/Song Next", the Looper will go on, but we can remove/add some Tracks and have another Loop. If you have 2 Tracks on the first Sequence, and 3 Tracks on the second one, you can just go from one to one by pressing the Bank/Song switch and then have different Loop with different stuff... and even build different kind of song structure.


    (For the ones who knows, it would be similar of Ableton Live)


    To turn on/off (Mute/Play) a Track we can just press-hold one of the 8 Tracks switches... (or use the Booster as a Mute page and then simple press on one of the 8 tracks switches. You tell me what you think is the best)


    In few words, it wouldn't be a simple Looper, but an advanced 8 synced Loopers, with different Sequences where you can mute/play the Loopers.


    What you think?


    Phil

    Mhhh... it seems to me Kemper are willing to keep it as simple as possible. I don't think the KPA needs much RAM, and for a not-even-serious looper a hardware modification would most probably be needed (unless, as I wrote elsewhere, they used one of the USB ports for an external storage device... but it's not going to happen IMO).


    I know the feeling tho... an all-in-one dream machine. But they seem to look elsewhere @ Kemper, and I can see their point as well: simplicity may be the winning point for the KPA market-wise.

    I wouldn't like something like that taking resources away from the core functionality. Let's keep the Kemper what it is, I'm not a big fan of the all-in-one concept: it tyes you up. I like to choose my tools

    "Music is enough for a lifetime, but a lifetime is not enough for music" Serghei Rachmaninoff


    no one would be forced to use it. just keep your boomerang for advanced stuff.
    on the footcontroller i'd prefer it to be "hidden" anyways: hold tap or tuner or whatever...
    a simple statement from mothership could end a lot of thinkings here... (not only looper)


    a, got the idea, but we don't like it
    b, it's on the list. it's at the very end but we're on it
    c, we would love to help you here, but the kpa doesn't have the memory / resources
    d, we should have asked you before limiting usb-possibilities
    e, it's gonna be complicated, but we're experimenting with hardware expansion packs, just like the poweramp
    f, stop having ideas, we prefer to have our own



    edit: this was more directed to a basic looper tool. i like the advanced ideas, but it really sounds like a different beast...

    Oh, ok... I was just trying to bring and share some thoughts and ideas (that I thought could be good) and maybe help to make users even more happy than they already are. Apparently, that's not the case...


    The reason I wish an "All-in-one" solution is dictated by one of my main concern regarding the KPA and usage.
    I don't mind to have external devices (for the Looper or anything else), but only if I could get let say 4 or 5 external loops I/O like the G-System.
    Without, the KPA can't be the main center piece, so it means I will need something else and use the KPA as a "Amp" only... What about the integrated Stomps and Effects then...


    I'm just a bit confused about that and that's also why I'm seeking for other Foot Controller (from the G-System I already know well for having it at the studio, to the Ground Control, Liquid Foot and others...). And if I need a more advanced Foot Controller, Audio Loops Switcher, etc... why should I care about the KPA Foot Controller at all then?All I need is a complete and full Midi Integration, just like someone (I can't remember the name) already mentioned it. All I thought is that having everything in a single unit, would simplify a lot... Less gear, better integration, easier to use and even cheaper in the end. That's the reason of my thinking.


    But don't get me wrong, I completely understand you surely have another thinking and vision (that I don't know and perhaps even don't share) for the future of KPA. I respect them, you surely have good reasons for.


    Sorry then, let's forget it and don't worry I got it and won't bother you with my ideas...


    Phil

    Spid: don't get me wrong, that was just my opinion. I respect your ideas and believe a lot of people would like something like that, just not me. No bad feeling and you're not bothering me, new ideas are always welcome. :thumbup:

    "Music is enough for a lifetime, but a lifetime is not enough for music" Serghei Rachmaninoff


    Quote from guitarnet70

    Spid: don't get me wrong, that was just my opinion. I respect your ideas and believe a lot of people would like something like that, just not me. No bad feeling and you're not bothering me, new ideas are always welcome. :thumbup:


    No hard feeling at all. We're all here discuss as perfect gentlemen (something I appreciate in comparison to a lot of forums).
    Trust me, I do understand musiciens are all different with different needs. So, I'm listening and understanding everyone.


    And I even more respect people who already own and use a KPA. Which is not my case... yet. I just want to be sure, it will fit my needs (for the Amp and profile point of view there's no doubt) but as well as maybe the fact to be and become my center piece, and remove the need for anything else. I was seeking for the G-System (that I already use at the studio) with a M13 or Pod HD Pro and I was lurking on the Axe-FX II... So the KPA got my attention and could probably change things (such a G-Major 2 instead the G-System if the KFC can fit my need or if I use something else, etc...).


    So, I'm just thinking out loud about current and potential (future) features of the KPA (which anyway I would prefer in Rack since I already have other stuff such the Eleven Rack and old stuff such Art, Boss and Digitech in rack).


    Regarding ideas, Kemper Team probably likes better to have their own as mentioned in kilihahn response. As a manufacture point of view, I do understand why, mainly if you have a roadmap and need to stay focus on your current "wish/to-do list". So once again, no hard feeling ;)


    Phil

    Phil, first of all let me state that I share Guitarnet's feel, and appreciate your response :)

    Quote from Spid

    Regarding ideas, Kemper Team probably likes better to have their own as mentioned in kilihahn response. As a manufacture point of view, I do understand why, mainly if you have a roadmap and need to stay focus on your current "wish/to-do list".

    As regards this, I don't think that one approach excludes the other: of course @ Kemper they have clear in mind a number of things, for example where they don't want the KPA to go. At the same time they have proven to welcome a number of ideas and wishes from the users base.


    The way I see it, Kemper are not willing to rebuild KPA's philosophy from scratch to for example introduce hardware functionalities (a looper is not going to happen, IMO); nor they seem interested in making the machine too complex (for example introducing advanced functions that can make the UI more complicated and with too many options, like choosing where the boots will occur, and if it shall go along with a delay or a reverb modulation).
    OTOH, they seem to welcome any idea able to make the workflow easier, straighter, more efficient; and ideas related to new functionalities that don't complicate the way the KPA is perceived.


    So I would not say they likes better to have their own ideas, but rather that there're margins for including users' wishes in their overall vision.
    Don't get frustrated if your idea seem not to fit The Plan: like Guitarnet wrote, keep good ideas coming if you have any! :thumbup:

    i also for sure didn't want to sound rude or sth, it's just that if guys at kemper *know* that there wont be a looper, why not just tell us and let us use our phantasies for other important stuff like pitch, whammy, fancy reverse delays and other missing stuff...

    Quote from kilihahn

    i also for sure didn't want to sound rude or sth, it's just that if guys at kemper *know* that there wont be a looper, why not just tell us and let us use our phantasies for other important stuff like pitch, whammy, fancy reverse delays and other missing stuff...

    It's common strategy for a firm (specially with new products) not to reveal too much about the development directions, to keep the competitors on the edge as long as possible. There have been exceptions with Kemper, so apparently there's information they don't consider critical.

    Quote from viabcroce


    Don't get frustrated if your idea seem not to fit The Plan: like Guitarnet wrote, keep good ideas coming if you have any! :thumbup:


    Be assured I'm not frustrated at all... It doesn't change what I think about the KPA which for the Amp Profiling, already convinced me.
    All Stomps, Effects and "side" features are just a bonus. Having a Rack version would be very important though, as well as the optional Amp module.


    No problem neither lilihahn, you haven't been rude at all and I didn't take it that way. I understand technical limitation for the looper, so as said: let's forget it :)
    I will probably have some ideas in future (and probably even more when I will get my KPA). I have some already now, but they are related to "memory" such Step Sequencer Gate... I wish to know the limitations to perhaps focus my ideas on what's doable, but I do believe it's probably confidential.


    Phil

    A looper can have three type of use:


    1) to create "perfect" profiling and profiling verification/refining not depending on the hand and on the moment feeling
    2) to create tone and sound tweaking the KPA while the looper go on on a specific phrasing
    3) to real use the looper in LIVE situation


    I believe that for the first two items it can be very simple to implement a looper with direct access to play/rec function on the KPA itself, while the third one can be more complicated and CPU consuming.


    So, for my opinion, at least the first two option can be easily implemented in the future and can be really helpfull.


    Thank you!

    I love looping - a lot!
    ..But I don't see this feature within the KPA.


    I don't think it is possible without an upgrade, and if the board is supposed to do the trick, why not use the same amount of money to buy a separate looper (like the Boss RC-3) and keep the price down for those who doesn't need it.


    I have an old Boss RC-2 for this, and it really does the trick. It is even a pretty cheap gadget.

    Kemper made me proud to go digital.