Kemper or the Axe FX II? Few questions before I buy

  • I've been reading over here on the forum for a long moment now and here's my current decision I made: I'm not gonna buy the Kemper Amp... yet.
    And before anyone is accusing me of trolling or so, here are my personal reasons why:


    1-) I will need more time to save for the Axe-FX (and other stuff)... so maybe by the time to be ready, the KPA might receive some updates that will change my point of view.


    2-) As of today, the KPA is not available in Rack format, which is a definitely "no no" in my situation.


    3-) The KPA doesn't look reliable enough to me for Live and Touring. Even without talking about the Rack, the booting time by itself is killing everything for me and would make me use the KPA in Studio only while I'm looking for a tools for both Studio & Stage.


    4-) Quality over Quantity... It looks like there's thousands of profiles, but I'd actually prefer to have less quantity and just have quality. I don't want to spend hours and hours to find the good sound.


    5-) From everything I read, including manual and user guides, the workflow looks also hecky, not super intuitive...


    6-) If the "Profiling" is apparently really well done, apparently the rest (OS) aren't and there's missing, bugs, etc... I completely understand it could happen to any new product, but I need something 110% rock solid, so I prefer to wait for the KPA to become better.


    7-) There's not as much Stomps/Effects as other solutions (even in comparison of a Pod HD Pro/M13) and I'm not even quite sure from everything I read so far that CK even want the KPA to become the holy "all-in-one" grail and it looks like he would prefer to stay focus on the Profiling "Only". I completely understand this choice and it would be then even perfect if it had more Audio-FX Loops then (like the G-System), to integrate it with other FX Rack... There's the 4CM, but it's not enough. The Axe-FX does have the same issue, but looks to integrate more effects...


    8-) I'd prefer the KPA to include a kind of Loadbox to profile the Amp only and directly... be able to use it with a real Cab or a Cab+Mic simulation, depending your choice and situation (or even both... Cab on stage and Cab+Mic Simulation for Front PAs or even for Recording). I might use a Torpedo Live for that instead...


    9-) I'd love to be able to run two Rig (Signal Chain) together... for Rig X/Y (or A/B), to switch between Rig or even having stereo Rig. I often use the G-System with dual out on a Mesa Mark V and a Fender Twin and the result is just great and very flexible. You can easily use one, the other, both... change canal on just one, etc... With a good Stomps Audio Loops Combination that's all I need. I actually even use it as a "One Preset Setup" only... turning on/off, switching canal, selecting Rig, etc... but being on the same configuration from start to end and not switching from presets to presets (which is good when you know what you will play and have a setlist... but not good at all when you know what you need after the first bar the drummer already started to play).


    10-) Being not satisfied by anything I saw in Foot Controller so far (from both Fractal Audio, Kemper, Line 6, etc...), I might go for a better solution with Gizmo Effects Audio-FX Looper and/or SSL X-Patch, associated to a LF+ or Mastermind GT foot controller... (or maybe even my own foot controller if I can't get exactly what I want, the G-System is great but it needs just few more switches and loops, so I might just get a G-Major 2 instead).


    There's other tiny stuff such Audio over USB (TI style for Editing, Management AND Audio Recording/ReAmping, etc...), etc... but here are my 10 main reasons why I might just wait for a better version of the Kemper Amp.


    It's not an easy decision because it's been over a year I was waiting for, I was very excited to see it at MusikMesse, even more excited to read all of your post over here, but I don't like to buy gear that don't match my needs (even if they do have great hype). It's for the same reason I haven't buy the Axe-FX 1 (or Ultra), because there was some stuff I didn't like about...


    NOTE: This is MY reasons and mine only, they might not apply to yours and it even doesn't mean that the KPA is not good at all... I actually think it's really good and that's why I still considering it, reading all post, the manual, listening all demos, watching all videos, etc... If I'd think it's not good at all, I wouldn't spend so much time about it, nor even writing this post. I just hope Kemper Team will read it and they might come with an update or upgrade that will delete all of my 10 points and make me the most happier man on earth... In the end, that's all I'm hoping for :)


    My 10 cents,
    Phil

  • As the original poster asked for an opinion:
    I made an informed decision here: http://kemper-amps.com/forum/i…page=Thread&threadID=4017
    KPA sounded significantly better to my (then totally unbiased) ears.

    I found another link to your Axe fx 2 vs Kemper profiling amp impressions here that should work:
    http://www.kemper-amps.com/forum/ind...=4017&pageNo=1


    Here are some more comparison reviews previously posted by users who have had experience playing both the Axe fx and Kemper profiling amplifier.
    http://www.kemper-amps.com/forum/ind...&threadID=3795
    http://www.kemper-amps.com/forum/ind...&threadID=3673
    http://www.kemper-amps.com/forum/ind...3079&pageNo=13
    http://www.kemper-amps.com/forum/ind...&threadID=3099
    http://www.kemper-amps.com/forum/ind...&threadID=3562
    http://www.kemper-amps.com/forum/ind...&threadID=4453
    http://www.kemper-amps.com/forum/ind...&threadID=3904


    I also use the axe fx 2 and It can not do any kemper profiling but it's doing traditional modeling with eq tone match.


    The kemper profiling amp offers both profiling and have the ability to eq tone match previously recorded guitar tracks when used with an eq match plugin like Ozone.
    See these threads on how to use the Kemper profiling amp with eq tone match plugins:
    Profiling with EQ matching plugins
    profiles of classic metal tones with eq tone match.
    classic metal tones done with EQ matching
    Metallica, Pantera, Megadeth Kemper profiles with eq tone match

  • Spid, your arguments are reasonable and I also think, everybody should buy gear depending on HIS PERSONAL needs and not any hype whatsoever. I think the Kemper is an extraordinary piece of gear and while I also would like to have some things in it, that will probably not be possible, I think I will just build a rig around it, with it only doing what it does best: Reproducing great amp sounds.


    I would also like to say, that I think OPs question has been handled very good, especially since this is the Kemper forum! No clash of fanboys vs haters in any way. :thumbup:

  • There is one feature on the KPA that I absolutely love!! being able to save your patches to the USB drive, in my case due to a lot of traveling having all your patches in a little device like that is really nice, I wish the AXE could do that, in many cases in other countries i could borrow/rent a unit and in a few minutes would have all my patches ready to do a gig, also in some gigs there are other bands that also have one, so in case of a failure, I could in a minute load my patches to another unit.. ya you can do all that with a laptop, but really not as fast an easy, also in case someone F..cks with your patches(yes it has happened to me, someone initialized my G-Gorce, in a big festival with lot's of bands, glad i had the card with my patches) after sound check while you go out for beer, no worries, you can get them all in a minute! Very smart of Kemper to include backups to USB stick.


  • 4-) Quality over Quantity... It looks like there's thousands of profiles, but I'd actually prefer to have less quantity and just have quality. I don't want to spend hours and hours to find the good sound.


    Phil! In this case just don't buy a modeler/profiler/tone-matcher of any sort! ;) Seriously if you want quality and don't need much diversity and if you don't like to tweak just buy a good tube amp! You need to be a power user, or at least a good tweaker, to get the best out of a digital device and especialy an AFX IMHO, I owned an AFX standard and never got to tweak that much than with this device. Just my 2 cents. :)


    Maybe it's different now that you can download some very good presets/rigs from other users who know what they do, but you will always want to fit those to your personnal taste, your special guitars, speakers, FRFR etc. And you will always searching for a better way to get the best out of your box, infinite search... If you like this kind of quest then you'll be happy, but if you don't...


    Pierre

    Edited 6 times, last by Pick909 ().


  • 4-) Quality over Quantity... It looks like there's thousands of profiles, but I'd actually prefer to have less quantity and just have quality. I don't want to spend hours and hours to find the good sound.

    I think point #4 is back to front.
    Quality belongs in the KPA corner, Quantity in the Axe-FX corner.
    The Axe-FX has more FX and more tweaking menus, that's quantity.


    The KPA allows you to have how ever many profiles you want, you can have 5 or 500, up to you.
    Don't be fooled into believing what the internet says about the "stock" Profiles that come in the Kemper.
    The stock Profiles might not sound fantastic in your house through your
    studio monitors, but let a pro studio record with them and you'll hear
    how good they can really be.


    All these clips were done with stock Profiles and stock cabs.


    http://soundcloud.com/temper59

  • Don't be fooled into believing what the internet says about the "stock" Profiles that come in the Kemper.
    The stock Profiles might not sound fantastic in your house through your
    studio monitors, but let a pro studio record with them and you'll hear
    how good they can really be.

    Couldn't agree more with Guitartone.
    If we agree that the KPA can perfectly/amazingly reproduce the original amp setup, how can a setup used by a Nashville pro be "bad"? I've found two answers to this:

    • Whoever creates a profile sets the amp the way they like best with the instruments they're using at the moment. If they were using my guitar, they'd probably setup it differently (or maybe their touch would prevail over the instruments; but, point being, when I play that profile I sound different);


    • Pro guitarists are very able in dialling in tones ready for mixing. Some months ago Pete Thorn has just shown this on the Fractal forum: he was demonstrating some Axe-Fx brand new patches of his, and some members argued that the tones were generally too "thin". Then he linked some very famous songs posted over youtube where the same amps/settings had been used (talking about VH, Def Leppard and the like), and (many) people discovered how thin a guitar sound has to be in a mix to sound good. So I guess the KPA "pro" stock profiles have been created with this in mind.

    I guess the two points above are more than enough to state that the only way to really know how a profile (be it "user" or "stock") was meant to sound is to listen to it played by the author with the original instrument.
    Not that it can't sound gorgeous in a different context, of course :D

  • Phil! In this case just don't buy a modeler/profiler/tone-matcher of any sort! ;) Seriously if you want quality and don't need much diversity and if you don't like to tweak just buy a good tube amp! You need to be a power user, or at least a good tweaker, to get the best out of a digital device and especialy an AFX IMHO, I owned an AFX standard and never got to tweak that much than with this device. Just my 2 cents. :)


    Oh, I might not express myself correctly... I do have access to several Amps and if I do buy a KPA, of course, I'm gonna build my own favorite good sounding Profiles. However, even if I already have a lot of gear, I can't have all kind of Amp on the planet... So, I wish I could easily find good profiles of these Amps I don't have.


    Everyone knows here that the overall signal chain (Amp, Cab, Room treatment, Mic and mic position, Preamp) do have an impact on how "good" a profile could be or not... No offense to anyone, but it looks like there's a lot of shared profiles, from very good amp thought, but perhaps, not so good overall signal chain... I have the chance to have access to great studios, with tons of awesome gear and even better sound engineer than me, so I have no doubt about the profiles I could do... but more about the profiles I could get. Not everyone has the chance to have access to a Recording studio, with great gear and sound engineer experience.


    Which means, if there's several profile versions of the same kind of amp, it's gonna take quite some time to download them all and test them... I have no problem of tweaking to get the sound I want, I just have problem of spending time to find a correct and decent profile....


    That's also for this reason I do tend to believe it would be more interesting to profile the Amp only (with a loadbox). It removes the Amp, Mic, Mic position and PreAmp of the process... reducing considerably the risk of "not so good" profiles. But, we need a good Cab+Mic emulation then...


    Guitartone: I don't have problem of Quantity of Amp, Stomps, Effects, etc... actually, the more we can get, the better it is. I would have problem if I would have 50 versions of a Tube Screamer with each one a different quality... That's what I meant :)

  • The day I got my Kemper the Axe-fx II was boxed and up and :thumbup: on eBay within 2 hours. Unless your goal is to spend hours diddling effects (Axe) there simply is no contest.
    The Kemper sounds amazing and you can start recording guitar tracks in 30 seconds.
    The Axe sounds OK, but never convinced me. I wanted something that gave me the same immediate response that my old Matchless gave me (i.e., plug in, turn on, hit record): Kemper.
    Hands down.

  • I owned the Axe II before I bought the KPA, I don't remember what firmware version it was at when I had it but at that time I would say that the core amp tones in the KPA were a lot better. One other point, some people have mentioned that the Axe II has tone matching, if this feature is important to you then you may want to search the Axe forum but it is my understanding that with each firmware update your tone matches become more and more off as the amp models themselves are changed, this would be something to consider since you would need to redo your tone matches each time you upgrade which IMO would make tone match useless.

  • I owned the Axe II before I bought the KPA, I don't remember what firmware version it was at when I had it but at that time I would say that the core amp tones in the KPA were a lot better. One other point, some people have mentioned that the Axe II has tone matching, if this feature is important to you then you may want to search the Axe forum but it is my understanding that with each firmware update your tone matches become more and more off as the amp models themselves are changed, this would be something to consider since you would need to redo your tone matches each time you upgrade which IMO would make tone match useless.


    Yeah, this is an old thread. But in the interest of providing info, you can Tone Match with the Kemper using 3rd party software plugins and profiling through that. There are some profiles along those lines out there. The advantage there is you can get the KPA cheaper and buy the plugin with the difference. Some like Izotope's Ozone for that, and it's a powerful Mastering Plugin. I haven't convinced myself to get it yet for Mastering because my tests with it have it's presets seeming over-bearing. I suppose, like most good gear, you really gotta tweak it yourself for the best results.


    My experience with Tone Matching tho is it's unexciting. But if you don't have the right guitar, it's better than nothing.

  • Some like Izotope's Ozone for that, and it's a powerful Mastering Plugin. I haven't convinced myself to get it yet for Mastering because my tests with it have it's presets seeming over-bearing. I suppose, like most good gear, you really gotta tweak it yourself for the best results


    yup.. I use Ozone and really like it. Also use Nectar II for vocal processing with is awesome, Alloy and RX, all really good apps..

    Gettin' funky up in here..

  • I have an Axe-Fx II and I'm looking seriously at the KPA. I'm blown away by some of the KPA clips I've heard, some of which I think are stock (including kemper59's clips linked to above). I've put in a lot of time and sweat with the Axe, far more than I want to spend tweaking when I could be playing/practicing/recording, and have some killer presets. The Axe is a superb tool and the effects are stunning, but I'm still not satisfied with my tone. I figure for $2000+ you should be able to push a button and get a killer sound.


    I have a lot of research to do on this forum and elsewhere, but thought I'd go ahead and ask this question:


    With KPA firmware updates, does it overwrite changes you've made, presets you've tweaked or created, etc.? When Fractal updates the firmware and provided new presets, installing them overwrites all the painstaking tweaking you've done, creating a lot of rework.

  • With KPA firmware updates, does it overwrite changes you've made, presets you've tweaked or created, etc.? When Fractal updates the firmware and provided new presets, installing them overwrites all the painstaking tweaking you've done, creating a lot of rework.


    No, the profile stays the same. Firmware updates are mostly added features/effects and bug fixes.