Mixing multiple amps !

    2 different Rig in the same time... to switch between one and the other or even run them together in parallel (with different pan, effects and settings)... I say: AMEN to that...


    I'm used to use a Mark V and a Fender Twin in Parallel (with the G-System to control them) and it's so great to have sometimes a clean sound with some delay on one side and a little crunch sound on the other... Or sometimes even have one for the low aggressive sound and the other for the more kicking top ends, etc... Or even use the second amp as a "Boost" channel to bring a little bit more depth in the sound... Well, endless possibilities and interest.


    If we can do that without buying two KPA... that would be awesome! (I don't buy twice a same product... if we can't do it, I'd prefer to have one KPA and another device (let's say a Axe)... to get most benefits of both products).


    Phil

    Quote from Zappledan

    Actually, I wasn't thinking of any external input, but simply a means for mixing the clean signal of the current profile with the processed signal, with a percentage mix variable.

    Well, Kemper say that the Alternate input enters the Loop stomp. It is an external input!


    The difference between the clean profile signal and the processed sound It's not clear to me... do you mean processed from fx?


    How would you route it? :)

    Quote from viabcroce

    Well, Kemper say that the Alternate input enters the Loop stomp. It is an external input!


    The difference between the clean profile signal and the processed sound It's not clear to me... do you mean processed from fx?


    How would you route it? :)


    I was suggesting that the KPA could internally mix clean signal and processed signal from the same rig. Clean signal would be with gain zero and no stomps. There would be no additional connections required, as all this is already available in the unit.

    Go for it now. The future is promised to no one. - Wayne Dyer

    If there is enough CPU power on tap then also consider the possibilities of running two profiles in series. You'd be able to profile your favorite amps, and profile your favorite distortion/overdrive pedals, and mix and match just as with the physical products. That would be a lot of fun IMO.


    (But I'm skeptical about there being enough CPU power on tap. After all, the KPA had to be designed and engineered with certain cost considerations in mind in order to be viable and profitable. Why would Kemper have used part(s) more than 2x as powerful as they needed to be?)

    Quote from mbenigni

    Why would Kemper have used part(s) more than 2x as powerful as they needed to be?)

    It depends on how long they planned to be supporting and updating the current product. If it is 10 - 15 years like their Virus synths, then it would make sense for them to use a DSP that is nowhere close to being maxed out at an early product life...


    Not sure where you got the DSP56/Symphony from, do you have a source? The current freescale lineup is more likely to be the MSC8122/MSC8126 or MSC8133 (which are 4 and 3 core chips respectively) as far as I can see.


    You might also want to compare like for like, if you use the high end of the graph for the TigerSHARC you should do the same for the Freescale (the DSP5672x ranges from 590 to 740 while the TigerSHARC TS201s ranges from 5330-6400) otherwise it could be


    AxeFX II : 5330
    MSC81xx: 5610


    Also when comparing bear in mind that the scores are for the whole die rather than per core. I believe the KPA only has a single processor rather than two, which gives the Axe a considerable processing advantage.


    Unfortunately AFAIK Christoph hasn't stated exactly which DSP is in use (would be fun to have an MSD814xx or 825xx which start at 9520 and 12330 btdimark scores respectively), however it's still not actually relevant. The issue is that it's apples and oranges, the efficiency of the algorithm and it's use of available resources (and memory handling) is more important than the hardware that it runs on. It's very easy to bring any machine from your phone through to a TESLA based supercomputer to it's knees doing the most trivial of tasks with a poorly constructed or bloated algorithm or one that simply doesn't correctly utilize the architecture correctly. Conversely an efficient algorithm can give you perfect results while leaving plenty of processing time to spare on some of the most amazingly complex tasks such as physics and fluid simulations on the lowliest of hardware.


    Therefore we simply don't know how heavily those DSP's are being worked in either the AxeFX or the Kemper, you can try to guess based on heat dissipation, but again a lot of that's down to circuit and enclosure design, sure the Kemper remains relatively cool to the touch and needs no fan, but it might just have a very efficient heatsink and airflow design (and the chip may just be very efficient), while the Axe's airflow may just be limited by the Rack space shape. So the only people that could tell us how much room for growth there is in either product would be Christoph and Cliff, and they're both going to tell us that there's plenty of room to grow.

    I find this "comparing" stuff quite funny! :P



    Let me tell you a little story:


    First night with my girlfriend, I was all cocky (no pun intended):


    Me: (*while waving*) "So...! Pretty impressive, right?"
    She: "WOW!"
    Me: "Yeah, I know!"


    fast forwarding... 5 minutes later


    Me: "Oh maaan, that was awesome!"
    She: "Well sort of..."
    Me: "What do you mean? The other guys you've been with were "bigger"?"
    She: "Well no, not at all..."
    Me: ( *feeling like a million bucks :D* )
    She: "...but they all knew how to use theirs!"

    Edited 4 times, last by schneidas ().

    hi,


    http://www.musotalk.de/video/c…des-kemper-profiling-amp/
    8:55 ... ist doch garantiert ein 56tausender ... ja ... DualCore ...


    http://www.guitar-muse.com/kemper-profiling-amp-2949-2949
    9. Can you talk about...
    The main DSP is a Freescale DSP (formerly Motorola) running at an equivalent of 400 MHz speed.


    Freescale DSP 56k Serie (200/250MHz 590/740)
    http://www.freescale.com/webap…epage.jsp?code=563XXGPDSP


    TigerSHARC TS201: 500MHz: 5330 - 600MHz: 6400 - IIRC AxeFWII 2x 600MHz


    ao

    The interviewer mentions 56000 rather than Christophe (who just says Dual Core), but the DSP56xxx are single core processors : http://www.freescale.com/files…ochure/BRDSPPARMETRIC.pdf


    Unfortunately my German isn't up to deciphering all that's being said there beyond the numbers and dual core.


    The trouble with it being single core is that then to get two cores you'd need two chips, but in any of the KPA breakdowns I've seen so far it looks like there's only a single die rather than two.


    So that means either the 56000 is related to something else, or that the breakdowns aren't very complete (quite possible).


    There are only three dual core freescale DSP's shown on that list anyway which are the MSC8112 (which runs at 300MHz though, so I don't see how that could fit), or two 800 MHz options which also don't fit the MSC8252 and MSC8152, although their Max frequency is clocked at 400MHz, so it's possible that's what's meant. Although there's nothing stopping a chip from being throttled back to the equivalent of 400MHz either in order to keep things running cool and avoid the need for the fan.


    Only Christoph could tell, but again regardless of which chip(s) may be being used there's no-way of knowing just how much spare processing power is available for blending rigs as that's down to algorithm rather than chip. The bigger issue I see is in how the GUI for such a thing would work.

    Quote from Per

    there's nothing stopping a chip from being throttled back to the equivalent of 400MHz either in order to keep things running cool and avoid the need for the fan

    Somebody's brain is still working... :thumbup: :thumbup: . This is what I understand when he says "400Mhz equivalent"

    "Music is enough for a lifetime, but a lifetime is not enough for music" Serghei Rachmaninoff


    Can blending be done with a future Kemper pc-editing program using your computer's power?
    Sorry if this is a very sophomoric suggestion, but IIRC didn't the old Digitech GNX4 allow for blending amps with it's computer software editor?

    "Heavy Metal does have a message for the rest of the world: Fuck You!" -Sebastian Bach

    Per


    hi,


    DSP56720 (this is a DSP56k!!! 56tausender!!!)
    http://www.freescale.com/webap…SP56720&nodeId=0127959D9D [*]Dual DSP56300 cores for high performance [*]External Memory Controller (EMC) provides for memory expansion to cost-effective SDRAM
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v…Hi5w&index=1&feature=plcp
    2:20
    Samsung K4S281632K-UC75 - 128Mb K-die SDRAM [*]DSP56720: 144LQFP Package
    The big chip on the right side is not 144pin... :?:
    (but the StarCores are BGA?)


    http://www.freescale.com/files…ochure/BRDSPPARMETRIC.pdf
    I cant find a DualCore (2x200 or 400MHz /MIPS ...) and SDRAM-Interface.


    ao

    Quote

    The bigger issue I see is in how the GUI for such a thing would work.


    Absolutely, especially in light of the fact that Christoph has shot down much simpler ideas on the grounds that he would prefer to keep the KPA and interface simple and intuitive.


    Quote

    Can blending be done with a future Kemper pc-editing program using your computer's power?


    Using your computer's power, yes. But this is kind of beside the point. You could also blend a second amp tone using the power of ... another KPA. Or any other amp for that matter. Don't confuse using a PC editor to program what the KPA is itself capable of doing with using a PC to supplement those capabilities.

    Quote from imall41

    I believe it is already in the "Box", just not activated yet. The "Alternative Input", which, right now, is only useable as a stereo loop return, I believe, is eventually meant for mixing a second source with the KPA's output, and if it enters the KPA chain post-amp, then I am set.


    I have been trying to get some info on the ,eventual, full function plans for the Alternative Input.


    From the Kemper Support site,

    Quote

    "Known Issues:


    - New stomp gates are not downward compatible, get replaced by Wah Flanger during downgrade to 1.0.8 Release, but recover when upgrading again
    - Alternative Input only functional for Stereo Loop"


    So, if they state "only functional for Stereo Loop", as a Known Issue, does this not imply a secondary function is intended for the Alternative Input, s/a possibly (adding), mixing, a second sound source with a rig, (while simultaneously maintaining full function of the, mono, Loop s/r)?


    I am thinking, you could simply plug the direct out(through any pre-amp,or effect, with line level out), into the Alternative Input, thus adding a clean signal that could be mixed with a rig (post amp).
    This would work for me, seeing as the interface of the KPA is not set up to deal with two rig chains, regardless of the DSP capabilities.

    Quote

    So, if they state "only functional for Stereo Loop", as a Known Issue, does this not imply a secondary function is intended for the Alternative Input, s/a possibly (adding), mixing, a second sound source with a rig, (while simultaneously maintaining full function of the, mono, Loop s/r)?


    I think this is just in contrast to the original intended use for the Alt. Input, which - if I understood correctly - was to allow you to plug your guitar into the back of the amp if preferred.


    Quote

    I am thinking, you could simply plug the direct out(through any pre-amp,or effect, with line level out), into the Alternative Input, thus adding a clean signal that could be mixed with a rig (post amp).
    This would work for me, seeing as the interface of the KPA is not set up to deal with two rig chains, regardless of the DSP capabilities.


    Couldn't the Mono or Stereo Loop, with mix set appropriately, be used in this way already? The only hitch is that you have additional FX post-loop, and therefore shared by both rigs.