How can I minimize that "ambience" character of the KPA?

    Try this: bring up a clean sound and set the volume quite loud. Then put your left fingers lightly on the bass strings without pushing the strings really down, just touching them. Then move your hand slowly up and down along the strings. You hear that typical howling sound similar to old wind machines in theatres. Do this test with the KPA and then with a real amp. To my ears there is always a kind of remoteness, a metallic ambience signal present in the KPA, that I also know from the FISHMAN AURA acoustic guitar preamp. It is a bit like a slap back delay or early reflection but much, much weaker. I am not talking about tracking, just this kind of metallic, boxy ambience added to the tone. It is also easy to detect when you just lightly touch the strings with the pick or fingernail and leave it there, not drawing back. Just that click.


    I am still not really shure about this phenomenon but I think this ambience is stronger in some profiles (for instance "D'Lux Dirty - Cactus") and weaker in others (for instance and44). Therefore I ask you guys: are there any recomendations on how to do the profile as tight as possible? This ambience is not the sound of the room where I did my profile. So how important is it to do a profile in a dry room? Are there other factors influencing the tightness?

    www.audiosemantics.de
    I have been away for quite a while. A few years ago I sold my KPA and since then played my own small tube amp with a Bad Cat Unleash. Now I am back because the DI-profile that I made from my amp sounds very much convincing to me.

    Dislike 1

    Sounds like a grounding/shielding problem to me.


    Different amps compress the signal more or less, and coupled with different clean and dirty sens settings will exacerbate such a problem and make it more clearly audible, but I would look at the the cables and your guitar pickups/electronics first as well as any sources of emf in your room and especially the grounding on whatever you're using as a power amp. If you're using a USB powered audio interface try going direct from the kpa instead to your speakers.


    You should never be the ground when playing guitar, and with good pickups or humbuckers you really shouldn't hear that sound with anything coming close to or into contact with the strings. If it's not that then post an audio clip of the sound in question as that may help to work out what it is.

    Quote from Per

    Sounds like a grounding/shielding problem to me.

    I can definitely rule out shielding problems. Anyway I don't see how a shielding problem might generate a remote, ambience, early reflection kind of character in the sound.


    This "ambience" is always present, no matter what I play, but I think by playing noises (like rubbing the strings or clicking) it is easier to identify than with pitches (plucking a note). And it is there in all the preset profiles, but with varying intensity - some are tighter than others.

    www.audiosemantics.de
    I have been away for quite a while. A few years ago I sold my KPA and since then played my own small tube amp with a Bad Cat Unleash. Now I am back because the DI-profile that I made from my amp sounds very much convincing to me.

    Edited 2 times, last by fretboardminer ().

    If that is all the answers from you so now I found myself a good solution today:


    Following the rule "trash in > trash out" I did another profile today and on the refining I also played the above mentioned noises and much more noises that I usually include in my playing. And guess what: this profile is much tighter!


    :) !!!

    www.audiosemantics.de
    I have been away for quite a while. A few years ago I sold my KPA and since then played my own small tube amp with a Bad Cat Unleash. Now I am back because the DI-profile that I made from my amp sounds very much convincing to me.

    Quote from ckemper

    Turn down the noise gate (all way to the left).

    The noise gate was always down.


    Is it possible that the new profile is tighter because I played those string rubbing and scratching sounds during refinement?

    www.audiosemantics.de
    I have been away for quite a while. A few years ago I sold my KPA and since then played my own small tube amp with a Bad Cat Unleash. Now I am back because the DI-profile that I made from my amp sounds very much convincing to me.

    Quote from ckemper

    Turn down the noise gate (all way to the left).

    But actually when I turn up the noise gate this really increases that "remote" feeling. Seems like the gate works more on the direct sound than on the (less loud) ambience part of the signal.

    www.audiosemantics.de
    I have been away for quite a while. A few years ago I sold my KPA and since then played my own small tube amp with a Bad Cat Unleash. Now I am back because the DI-profile that I made from my amp sounds very much convincing to me.

    What is your signal chain?


    Some connect the KPA to digital mixers, then via a DAW to digital speakers .... all this increases the delay.

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    Quote from Armin

    What is your signal chain?

    Profiling: Steinberger Synapse SS2F > VOVOX guitarcable > KPA > VOVOX guitarcable > Fender EC Vibrochamp > Audiotechnica AT4050 > VOVOX XLR cable > ALESIS mictube solo > VOVOX XLR cable > KPA


    Playing: Steinberger Synapse SS2F > VOVOX guitarcable > KPA > VOVOX XLR cable > RCA NX-12SMA


    Of course, the digital poweramp of the speaker adds another minimini tracking but I don't think this ambience is a tracking (delay) problem because tracking would affect the whole signal. Tracking cannot add an ambience to a dry signal; it would delay the whole signal. But what I hear is a nicely tight and dry signal plus this ambience. Also tracking would affect more the "feeling" while playing, not the listening.


    Actually I would not even call it a problem any more since the last profile with string rubbing and feeding the Kemp with explicitly sparkling transients on refining was already a big step ahead. I just want to ask around if there are some more advice on how to make a profile as tight and dry as possible.

    www.audiosemantics.de
    I have been away for quite a while. A few years ago I sold my KPA and since then played my own small tube amp with a Bad Cat Unleash. Now I am back because the DI-profile that I made from my amp sounds very much convincing to me.

    Be aware that every profile that you try has been under revision by the A/B comparison.
    Even slight effects that you describe would have been revealed, if they were not happening on the original amp.
    Conclusion: you would have noticed them on the original amp as well.

    Quote from ckemper

    you would have noticed them on the original amp as well.

    The original amp certainly has even much more ambience: I did the profiling in my living room the amp standing on my futon and the mic as far as 20 cm away! And this made my tightest profile so far. The difference to older profiles was that I also played lots of bright and short impules on refining. So the KPA must have some algorithm that enables it to separate the direct signal of the amp from the ambience field of the room. What I want to find out is: how can I "feed" this algorithm with the best information so that it does this separation best?


    Maybe I will ask my friend who has a house on the countryside if I could savage his nice and silent garden and do a profile there in open air on the meadow. This would definitely be the tightest environment possible, wouldn't it?

    www.audiosemantics.de
    I have been away for quite a while. A few years ago I sold my KPA and since then played my own small tube amp with a Bad Cat Unleash. Now I am back because the DI-profile that I made from my amp sounds very much convincing to me.

    Profile loud, profile with the mic as close as possible, find the sweet spot to place the mic on the grill. The further your mic is away from the amp, and the quieter the amp (with the more mic pre amplifying/compressing the signal) then the more room noise you will get. If you want to remove room noise altogether then profile direct using an attenuator with a direct out such as a THD Hotplate, or you can simply disable the cabinet/room altogether on the profile's amp block. This will remove all "room" although the resulting sound will be bloody horrible, but you could also either switch out the cab for another one, or reduce the cabinet character from within the cab settings. This section will contain the "ambience" characteristics provided that your'e talking about room noise. It should go without saying that you should also be sure to disable the reverb and delay in your rig.


    Further to general feel you can adjust the amp's own parameters, they're covered in the manual, specifically look at pick attack, sag, and compression (as well as to some minor extent definition and character). Bear in mind that profiling is about sounding like a source, not about creating new amps from any source and taking them anywhere, no matter what you do the profile will sound like the source amp itself, so if that source amp has characteristics you dislike you might be able ot massage things slightly, but you shoudl really use another source instead if you simply dislike it's sound, because it will always sound and behave like that amp.

    it's not a grounding nor a profile issue.


    i can confirm this with my KPA on any patch. it's a hard to describe, but it's some sort of a metallic phasey noise. it only happens when the noise gate is active. lowering it to zero completely removes it, as ckemper said.

    Quote from kojak_

    it's some sort of a metallic phasey noise.

    Yep! That is another good description. It is very subtle though.



    Quote from kojak_

    it only happens when the noise gate is active.

    I can`t confirm that. Turning down the noise gate was what I did just by instinct right from the first moment when I unboxed my KPA and did my first tests. I don't like and don't need noisegates for my music so I always take the noisegate out on every new tool that I test. And while turning the noise gate up really did increase the ambience, the opposite, turning it all the way down, did not completley cure it.



    Actually I am a bit irritated that there is so few tips about my question apart from turning down the noise gate and switching off the reverb and so. I mean - come-on: yes, profiles get much tighter when you activate the power switch before playing! ;)


    Switching off the cabinet a) does not cure this metallic ambience at all and b) is definitely not am option when you whant to profile the sweet chrunch of a Tweed Champ.


    Where are the guys that have access to professional, really dry recording chambers and Isocabs? Do you experience a difference to profiles made in a more life room? My suggestion is no: in this aspect profiling seems to be way different than recording; the Profiling Amp is doing more than just what a digital recorder would do - thatz why we love it, right?


    Mic distance also did not influence the tightness: my earlier profiles have been done with the microfone right on the grill. As I said: the 20 cm distance profile rendered a dryer sound than the really close ones. Mic distance just changes the sound, close miking sounds "edgier", harder and distant mic is a bit more smooth and even.


    My experience is: the biggest step ahead so far was made when I included playing strange noises and bright transients into the refining process. And I have to say again: with the resulting profile I am quite happy!

    www.audiosemantics.de
    I have been away for quite a while. A few years ago I sold my KPA and since then played my own small tube amp with a Bad Cat Unleash. Now I am back because the DI-profile that I made from my amp sounds very much convincing to me.

    Edited 4 times, last by fretboardminer ().

    Well there is one other thing, you are aware that unless you lock the input section the noise gate will turn itself back on as you go through the rigs? It's stored per rig, so this may also be causing you some issues. However it would seriously help if you could post some examples of the sound you're talking about and a clip of your amp so it would be possible to hear how the amp differs in it's attack and has less ambience.

    Quote from Per

    post some examples of the sound you're talking about

    I am quite happy with the results of my last profiling session. And as it seems I am the only one who cares about metallic resonances.

    www.audiosemantics.de
    I have been away for quite a while. A few years ago I sold my KPA and since then played my own small tube amp with a Bad Cat Unleash. Now I am back because the DI-profile that I made from my amp sounds very much convincing to me.

    Quote from fretboardminer

    I am quite happy with the results of my last profiling session. And as it seems I am the only one who cares about metallic resonances.


    I'd like to hear exactly what you are hearing and words can't make that happen, only audio samples can. Maybe there is a bug with the Kemper, maybe someone will be able to help pinpoint the exact setting you need to solve your problem with every rig, not just your own profiles. Maybe it will help other people. Please take the time, record an example, no-one is going to bite and it may prove useful even if you are now happy with your own profile.

    Quote from Per

    I'd like to hear exactly what you are hearing and words can't make that happen, only audio samples can.

    Ok, you are right. I will try to get this done tomorrow.


    Meanwile I was reading >> this here >> and >> this here >> . Maybe I should just dare to do a flash reset?

    www.audiosemantics.de
    I have been away for quite a while. A few years ago I sold my KPA and since then played my own small tube amp with a Bad Cat Unleash. Now I am back because the DI-profile that I made from my amp sounds very much convincing to me.

    Edited 2 times, last by fretboardminer ().