Profile with only one mic - and loud

I've never heard a single mic'd recorded sound that felt like the amp was in the room.
Some R121 sounds with post-processing came close, but not quite.
For those of us who want to feel like part of the experience - which the KPA is very good at doing - i think multi-mic'ing is mandatory.

I'm finding that a single good mic, good preamp, and the amp at a decent volume works best. No phasing issues to worry about.

On heavy stuff I've also been using a good attenuator and that seems to help as you crank up the amp but keep the profiling volume at a good level that's not ear splitting.

Seems to capture the nuances of the amp best.

Of course there are some really good sounding profiles with multiple mics as well, just a different flavor. They sound more sculpted for sitting in a track where single mics seem to feel like sitting in the room once you add some ambience.
Sean

Quote from Armin

Did you try any of my profiles?

Nope, not yet
I don't know if you remember, but we talked about this. What i did try from you was absolutely great, but i've yet to buy my own - it would seem i have to buy an FRFR system now, so i'll need to calm the wife down before i do

IMO, to make a great clean Profile, the amp needs to be EXCRUCIATINGLY LOUD!!!

The problem with multimics is almost always the phase between them. I have had many trackings, where the phase shift was as small as 2-4 samples (at 44,1) and the mids and highend were messed up. But 2-4 samples are 15-30 mm. When you close mic the same LS, then the microphone near the cone center is often a bit more far away, then the one near the edge (because of the geometry of the membrane). Unless you KNOW that or take the grill off, it is easy to overlook that. And its not as obvious in the tone. When you record 2 separate tracks to DAW, you can later control and correct for that (an so hear the difference between 100% korrekt phase and this small phase shift). But when you mix it instantly on a desk (to send the mix to Kemper), you have no control more. So it is VERY easy to overlook that Result -> a profile/sound, that can get very good, but can also get not as good (and often bad), as with only 1 mic, properly positioned.

So for me multimicing for profiling should only be done with precontrol on the DAW. Position mics, track a small piece, control it (phase shift and fader proportions). If everything is fine, go to Kemper, if not, correct the distance and take another try

By far micing + close micing the story gets even more complicated :)))

Quote from wacker

The problem with multimics is almost always the phase between them. I have had many trackings, where the phase shift was as small as 2-4 samples (at 44,1) and the mids and highend were messed up. But 2-4 samples are 15-30 mm. When you close mic the same LS, then the microphone near the cone center is often a bit more far away, then the one near the edge (because of the geometry of the membrane). Unless you KNOW that or take the grill off, it is easy to overlook that. And its not as obvious in the tone. When you record 2 separate tracks to DAW, you can later control and correct for that (an so hear the difference between 100% korrekt phase and this small phase shift). But when you mix it instantly on a desk (to send the mix to Kemper), you have no control more. So it is VERY easy to overlook that Result -> a profile/sound, that can get very good, but can also get not as good (and often bad), as with only 1 mic, properly positioned.

So for me multimicing for profiling should only be done with precontrol on the DAW. Position mics, track a small piece, control it (phase shift and fader proportions). If everything is fine, go to Kemper, if not, correct the distance and take another try

By far micing + close micing the story gets even more complicated :)))

The cool thing about the KPA is that even if the mic setup would feature a slight phasing, the resulting KPA profile will not. It will have the EQ curve, but not the phasing itself. I encourage everyone to experiment with that, you can get some very cool results this way.

Quote from tylerhb

It will have the EQ curve

But the comb filtering through the phase shift between the two mics will shape the EQ curve very strong. You will and up with another tone EQ vise, as if you would take only 1 mic or 2, but 100% in phase

Quote from wacker

But the comb filtering through the phase shift between the two mics will shape the EQ curve very strong. You will and up with another tone EQ vise, as if you would take only 1 mic or 2, but 100% in phase

True, but will this comb filtering and EQ alteration be necessarily a bad thing? Not in my opinion.

I'm of the opinion that duel micing is preferable. Or more.

When I compare single to duel or tri-micing, tri-micing is the best.

I just don't have the pathway for 3 mics. Or amps anymore, lol!

Thank you KPA, now I can see the floor for lack of amps!

I have profiled with a single Cascade ribbon mic right on the dust cap a few inches away with great results. But yeah, the amp was about as loud as it gets.

Quote from tylerhb

The cool thing about the KPA is that even if the mic setup would feature a slight phasing, the resulting KPA profile will not. It will have the EQ curve, but not the phasing itself. I encourage everyone to experiment with that, you can get some very cool results this way.

My experience is that profiles with a clean phasing are much more versatile, expressive and also relyable even in difficult situations (like playing through a bad PA e.t.c). The Shift parameters in the Cab section are a good indicator for phasing: they react much more natural with single mic profiles.

I hope some day I have the opportunity to try profiling with multiple mics and check out one of these phase correctors (Radial Engineering Phazer and such). I am curious if they really help with this.

Attenuators: I tried it (Weber Mass) and ended up with the same sound problems that I know from times when I regularly used them on stage: weak dynamics, loss of punch and clarity. I would only do profiles with an attenuator if I had one of these new transformer based types at hand. (Toneking Ironman or Aracom).

Quote from Guitartone

IMO, to make a great clean Profile, the amp needs to be EXCRUCIATINGLY LOUD!!!

Ay!
And thanks for showing us a new word: "excruciatingly" ... what a scary vocable.

Quote from db9091

I'm of the opinion that duel micing is preferable.

'duel micing' sounds like a cool idea!

I have to go against the grain here - I haven't played one dual mic profile that I've really liked (exception is some of Tills dual mic'd cabs). I seem to always hear some phasing that drives me nuts or something unnatural about them. I really like Armin's method a lot. With that being said, I don't do a lot of recording & just gig in a bar band & probably gravitate mor toward the amp in a room sound.

Quote from badtoneno

I haven't played one dual mic profile that I've really liked (exception is some of Tills dual mic'd cabs). I seem to always hear some phasing that drives me nuts or something unnatural about them.

I can confirm that! I feel the same. There is always a subtle but audible "phasing" character which in the best case is good for the situation but which can be negative in another situation.

I also found that on these profiles the High Shift and Low Shift parameters in the Cab menue are much less usable, because they tend to accentuate this phasing even more the further you go away from their zero position. On one-mic-profiles they react much more natural even in stronger settings.