I was fighting with the code, trying in vain to embed my soundcloud set.
Posts by fretboardminer
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Ok - now I spent six hours just tweaking knobs and cables and DI boxes. But here it is:
http://soundcloud.com/audiosem…ts/kemper-ambience-test-1
it is a pity that it is not possible to embed the soundcloud player here.
I switched on the "download" option, so you can also put all the files in parallel into your DAW and compare...The setup was:
Recording: guitar > Radial JDI >Computer
Reamping: computer > Radial Xamp > Kemper Profiling Amplifier > RCF NX-SMA12 > Audiotechnika AT4050 > computer (or my Champ+mic for the one REFERENCE Track)To my ears the result is plain to see (hear). And I hope I will learn from that. But before I tell you I would like some other opinions first. My head is turning and I think I will open a nice bottle of Mosel Steillage and play some acoustic guitar...
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I'd like to hear exactly what you are hearing and words can't make that happen, only audio samples can.
Ok, you are right. I will try to get this done tomorrow.
Meanwile I was reading >> this here >> and >> this here >> . Maybe I should just dare to do a flash reset?
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post some examples of the sound you're talking about
I am quite happy with the results of my last profiling session. And as it seems I am the only one who cares about metallic resonances.
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I still hope that the Kemper Foot Controller will be equiped with (acoustically) low noise buttons. Listen (unplugged) to the buttons of the first BOOMERANG (I don't know the newer one) or the ELECTRO HARMONIX FREEZE and then compare it to the BOSS FS-5L.
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it's some sort of a metallic phasey noise.
Yep! That is another good description. It is very subtle though.
it only happens when the noise gate is active.
I can`t confirm that. Turning down the noise gate was what I did just by instinct right from the first moment when I unboxed my KPA and did my first tests. I don't like and don't need noisegates for my music so I always take the noisegate out on every new tool that I test. And while turning the noise gate up really did increase the ambience, the opposite, turning it all the way down, did not completley cure it.
Actually I am a bit irritated that there is so few tips about my question apart from turning down the noise gate and switching off the reverb and so. I mean - come-on: yes, profiles get much tighter when you activate the power switch before playing!
Switching off the cabinet a) does not cure this metallic ambience at all and b) is definitely not am option when you whant to profile the sweet chrunch of a Tweed Champ.
Where are the guys that have access to professional, really dry recording chambers and Isocabs? Do you experience a difference to profiles made in a more life room? My suggestion is no: in this aspect profiling seems to be way different than recording; the Profiling Amp is doing more than just what a digital recorder would do - thatz why we love it, right?
Mic distance also did not influence the tightness: my earlier profiles have been done with the microfone right on the grill. As I said: the 20 cm distance profile rendered a dryer sound than the really close ones. Mic distance just changes the sound, close miking sounds "edgier", harder and distant mic is a bit more smooth and even.
My experience is: the biggest step ahead so far was made when I included playing strange noises and bright transients into the refining process. And I have to say again: with the resulting profile I am quite happy!
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you would have noticed them on the original amp as well.
The original amp certainly has even much more ambience: I did the profiling in my living room the amp standing on my futon and the mic as far as 20 cm away! And this made my tightest profile so far. The difference to older profiles was that I also played lots of bright and short impules on refining. So the KPA must have some algorithm that enables it to separate the direct signal of the amp from the ambience field of the room. What I want to find out is: how can I "feed" this algorithm with the best information so that it does this separation best?
Maybe I will ask my friend who has a house on the countryside if I could savage his nice and silent garden and do a profile there in open air on the meadow. This would definitely be the tightest environment possible, wouldn't it?
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What is your signal chain?
Profiling: Steinberger Synapse SS2F > VOVOX guitarcable > KPA > VOVOX guitarcable > Fender EC Vibrochamp > Audiotechnica AT4050 > VOVOX XLR cable > ALESIS mictube solo > VOVOX XLR cable > KPA
Playing: Steinberger Synapse SS2F > VOVOX guitarcable > KPA > VOVOX XLR cable > RCA NX-12SMA
Of course, the digital poweramp of the speaker adds another minimini tracking but I don't think this ambience is a tracking (delay) problem because tracking would affect the whole signal. Tracking cannot add an ambience to a dry signal; it would delay the whole signal. But what I hear is a nicely tight and dry signal plus this ambience. Also tracking would affect more the "feeling" while playing, not the listening.
Actually I would not even call it a problem any more since the last profile with string rubbing and feeding the Kemp with explicitly sparkling transients on refining was already a big step ahead. I just want to ask around if there are some more advice on how to make a profile as tight and dry as possible.
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Turn down the noise gate (all way to the left).
But actually when I turn up the noise gate this really increases that "remote" feeling. Seems like the gate works more on the direct sound than on the (less loud) ambience part of the signal.
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Turn down the noise gate (all way to the left).
The noise gate was always down.
Is it possible that the new profile is tighter because I played those string rubbing and scratching sounds during refinement?
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refine for 10 or more minutes to get a sound that's close.
My impression right now is that variation in playing styles (technically, not musically) is more important than just duraton. If you strum the same chords in the same way for 10 minutes that won't help much more than doing it for just a minute or two. I recently made a profile from 20 cm away from the speaker and after the chords all over the fretboard I also played lots of small noises, pizzicatos, flageolets, bright and ringing chords with clear, tight attacks all the way from pianissimo to fortissimo and double bends that produce those strange subtones and all this weird stuff. That profile ended up much more tighter than earlier, closer ones. Seems like the Kemp needs as much different info as possible, especially on transients, high-frequencies and dynamics. Of course it will need more time to to play all that stuff - so the refining will take longer, yes.
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If that is all the answers from you so now I found myself a good solution today:
Following the rule "trash in > trash out" I did another profile today and on the refining I also played the above mentioned noises and much more noises that I usually include in my playing. And guess what: this profile is much tighter!
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Sounds like a grounding/shielding problem to me.
I can definitely rule out shielding problems. Anyway I don't see how a shielding problem might generate a remote, ambience, early reflection kind of character in the sound.
This "ambience" is always present, no matter what I play, but I think by playing noises (like rubbing the strings or clicking) it is easier to identify than with pitches (plucking a note). And it is there in all the preset profiles, but with varying intensity - some are tighter than others.
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Try this: bring up a clean sound and set the volume quite loud. Then put your left fingers lightly on the bass strings without pushing the strings really down, just touching them. Then move your hand slowly up and down along the strings. You hear that typical howling sound similar to old wind machines in theatres. Do this test with the KPA and then with a real amp. To my ears there is always a kind of remoteness, a metallic ambience signal present in the KPA, that I also know from the FISHMAN AURA acoustic guitar preamp. It is a bit like a slap back delay or early reflection but much, much weaker. I am not talking about tracking, just this kind of metallic, boxy ambience added to the tone. It is also easy to detect when you just lightly touch the strings with the pick or fingernail and leave it there, not drawing back. Just that click.
I am still not really shure about this phenomenon but I think this ambience is stronger in some profiles (for instance "D'Lux Dirty - Cactus") and weaker in others (for instance and44). Therefore I ask you guys: are there any recomendations on how to do the profile as tight as possible? This ambience is not the sound of the room where I did my profile. So how important is it to do a profile in a dry room? Are there other factors influencing the tightness?
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It is nice to be able to set the brightness for all those different lights seperately (display, knobs, color leds, led collars) but actually then it would be consequent to add a MASTER BRIGHTNESS control too. If that's too much then why not put LED-collars and color-LEDs together on one control and then add the master brightness instead.
Very often the light guys set up the lights during soundcheck or maybe even later. So soundcheck ist bright "working" light and on the gig it is smoother. Then it is not handy to change all those settings on their own. A master brightness or even a switch to toggle between two settings for day and night would be cool.
And one more thing about the lights: for me the 3 LEDs of the quick-tuner are very irritating. I would like to switch them off or turn them down a lot - they are too nervous when they are flickering in the angle of the eye.
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Why did you expect no difference?
I did so because the similarities between reference amp and kemper amp are so stunning if you monitor it through control room speakers and skip between the two software switches on the KPA in the profile mode. This shows that the differences in my "toughest test" (A/B directly after the guitar) don't come from "further hardware" in the signal chain. IMO they mainly come from the way the Champ is projecting in the room. The Champ has 5 Watts and an 8" open back cabinet. That projects different in a room than the 700 Watt tighly closed back cabinet of the RCF NX-12SMA.
But this is only relevant in gigs in very small clubs without PA. And by now I have found a way how to go with the FRFR speaker. And the RCF NX-12SMA has other qualities that I begin to apreciate...
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I have a "Champ 4". And the tweaked are named "Champ 4.3". But (one of the things I still don't get on profiling) the KPA did not start from skretch after the profile: somehow he planted the new amp profile into the old rig that was up.
I have uploaded the raw profile to Rig Exchange under the name "Champ 4.0 ". It is not tweaked yet. The tweaked version is "Champ 4.3 ". Both have a quite narrow notch in the StudioEQ before the amp that you should take out (I forgot). It was meant to treat a unregularity in my guitar.
Would be cool to know your opinions.
goodnight... -
Fretboardminer: do you still have the original profile of the Champ? I know the amp quite well and I could give it a try with my RCF...
What do you mean by "original profile"? When you set all the parameters to zero it should be as it was when I stored the profile, right? But I think I made a copy before I plunged my head into deep editing.
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It did not sound "distant" to me either. No! And it was certainly a good guitar tone too. Maybe I was expecting too much: it just was not this "switch A or B - no difference" feeling.
I will definitively doo that test again tomorrow.
And in the meantime do some decent sleeping... -
It was on the floor. And there is a switch to adapt the frequency response for "floor" or "rig" mount. Bass was not the problem. It was more the genuine character, especially the sweet midrange of the Champ. And then I decided to do a new profile and then I got lost inside all those parameters of the KPA. Now my head is turning ...
