Crap. It's been quite some time since I sold my VHT UL (before Steve sold the company name ). I gotta have this.
Thanks for posting!
Crap. It's been quite some time since I sold my VHT UL (before Steve sold the company name ). I gotta have this.
Thanks for posting!
Sadly, the most I can come up with is a nice color screen ;).
Of course, I never knew I needed LP either!
The LP gain knob behaves as if there's a bright cap.
The authenticity of the [LP] Amp Models is also true for the amp’s Gain control, which will mirror the exact range of the original gain potentiometer, as well as the tonal changes of the attached “Bright Cap”.
No. The non-LP tone controls still function as an amp's tone controls, just a generic one. LP tone controls are not generic, that's the difference.
Have you tried putting a volume boost pedal in front of an overdrive pedal? Depending on how much volume boost you give, the overdrive pedal gets more distorted. And if you give it a ton of volume boost, then the overdrive pedal gets distorted beyond just the distortion it can provide by itself, right? That's basically what's going on. When you turn up the gain into a nonlinear system, you get more distortion.
As an aside, outside the digital domain, over-driving input stages of different analog (or digital) gear can get you the kind of distortion that you definitely DON'T want. Even the KPA can suffer from this if you over-drive the output (and get the output light to go solid red).
... but yeky83 is right about putting a volume boost in front of either a gain pedal, or the amp. It is no different than EITHER raising the volume on your guitar volume knob OR increasing the gain on the preamp (or pedal). I use this as well as a pure boost in the X slot after the amp to produce a good lead tone from a rhythm tone ( ... well, I also add an eq to boost the mid and mid highs for the lead as well).
The point is, adding volume before the amp mostly just raises the gain.
Right, I never said what you said I said. Glad we cleared that up.
To be clear, I am still saying that for many amps, the volume you play at (not just the gain) makes a big difference in the tone. I do not intend to argue how much of that tone change is due to the power amp tubes vs the cab speakers nor is it really that relevant.
Since the volume you play at makes a difference for the distortion AND LQP does NOT take volume settings into account (only gain), one could argue that for amps where volume effects the tone, the LQP should be taken at a high volume with max gain, or potentially several LQP's should be taken at different volume levels in order to capture the behavior of the amp.
This does not, in any way, reduce the effectiveness of LQP's. I believe this is one of (if not THE) biggest enhancements the KPA has ever had.
What I said was:
"Your contention that the power amp distortion and speaker distortion are a minor part of the overall distortion when the gain on most amps is turned up is really only true for high gain amps IMO."
Oh and I never said this.
To be clear, what you said was:
My contention was not that cabs do not distort, rather that they do not distort audibly enough to contribute to an overall guitar amp tone.
Oh. OneEng1 did you mean the Volume parameter within the Amp module of the Kemper? Well then there you go, it's just a volume knob. I thought this was common knowledge, so I misunderstood you and thought you meant the master volume of the amp being profiled.
I understand the Kemper gain staging. My point was that there can be differences in a real amp that are volume dependent vs gain dependent with regard to the amount of distortion the amp creates.
LQP as documented says to profile the amp with all the eq flat and the amp gain at max. It doesn't specify the volume at which to perform the profile at.
Your contention that the power amp distortion and speaker distortion are a minor part of the overall distortion when the gain on most amps is turned up is really only true for high gain amps IMO.
As a result, even a LQP would need to be profiled at multiple VOLUME levels in order to account for the volume related distortion.
LQP has no other mechanism of handling this volume induced distortion that I can see. It must be profiled at the volume the amp displays the characteristic distortion you wish to recreate on the KPA.
Cabs do not distort significantly enough to be audible, especially above the amp distortion which is orders of magnitude greater. What's often thought of as "cab distortion" is simply the amp's power amp being pushed harder and distorting.
This is in fact proven with the Kemper. The fact that Merged Profiles work at all is because cabs do not distort audibly to cause issues with the Kemper's linear Cab block.
With that said, even with LQP it'll still be necessary to capture an amp with many cabs & mics cus different cabs, mics, and mic placements sound different.
Not sure this is relevant. Yes, at higher volumes, some amps produce "power amp" distortion vs "preamp distortion"; however, it isn't like the KPA knows that the distortion is from the amp or the speaker cone .... and my point was that this distortion is output volume dependent.
FWIW, I know that cabs (some of them anyway) distort because I have driven them with powerful PA amps that don't distort and still got distortion at high volume even with a clean guitar signal. Most speakers will distort if you push them hard enough. Of course, some speakers do this without hitting the coil xmax while with others, you are about to blow your drivers in your cab when you hear it.
Ok, so let me rephrase the question here:
Pre-LQP, it was necessary to capture an amp at many gain levels, with many cabs and many mics/mic positions.
Post LQP it is STILL necessary to capture an amp with many cabs and mics correct?
Now, the real question is, since the LQP is based on the max gain of the amplifier, and cabs distort at different volume levels, does that mean that to properly capture an amp/cab profile you should dime the volume as well as the gain to achieve the "most distorted" version of the combination?
It is well known that some artists (like AC/DC) relied heavily on cab distortion for a relatively "clean" sounding distortion.
So ... in that particular case, the REAL amp/cab combo will absolutely change tone based on the main volume
Yeah, I know ..... there's always one in the bunch
Well, this might be.
But for me, and I'm using and will still use "old" profiles in the future, the actual "hype" about Liquid Profiling is not appropriate.
I agree. I have many "old" profiles that sound fantastic as is. What I am finding with LQP is that I can shape tone much easier to sounds that I like better.
First, this makes it possible for me to take an existing profile and make it even better than I could with the tools I had before. That isn't saying that the profile was incapable of getting those settings before LQP was introduced, it is saying that I was unable to get to those settings.
Second, I have found (for the same reasons) I am now able to take many existing "old" profiles that I couldn't previously tweak to a sufficiently good tone and make them sound really great.
The tones were always there, I was just unable to get the KPA there with the previous tools in many cases.
Note: I have only profiled 1 amp in my 10 years with my KPA (my old VHT UL). While I was able to sufficiently capture that sound, I no longer use it as I have found better sounding rigs for what I was using that tone for that I didn't make.
I can't speak for all KPA users since many of you use your KPA very differently than I do; however, for me, the KPA was never about profiling my own amps (or friends amps), it was about getting a suite of good tones to play live. To be clear, I am a live performance guitar player, not a professional KPA profiler. Sure, there are many that are both, but for ME, I will leave the profiling up to people that do that well and either graciously provide them for free, or sell them at a reasonable cost. Sure, I still have a suite of microphones (SM57, e609, MD421) that would make great profiles, but that just isn't my thing (I also no longer own any tube amps .... but still know quite a few people who do).
For others like myself, LQP provides a clear advantage over the standard KPA controls in taking an existing profile and making it into something gig-worthy with my guitars, PA chain and playing style.
The tone was always there in the old firmware, it was simply out of my reach in several situations, so for ME, LQP is actually under-hyped. I could care less if it makes the KPA controls "behave" like this or that amp. I could really care less if the KPA "captures" the exact sound of this or that amp. What I DO care about is how it sounds live and how hard or easy it is for me to get it to sound like that.
Honestly, I have been kind of confused since day-one on why people so often insist on comparing a profile to the original amp and so infrequently focus on how the KPA sounds in a live mix.
Of course, as I first stated, I know that others use their KPA differently than I do and their needs could be quite different to mine.
Ok, so the weekend is finally here (yea!). Got some time and got liquid.
Took quite a bit of time since I was on 8.7 (did a backup), loaded 9, rebooted and made sure everything was still alright. Then loaded 10 beta.
First thing that happened was I found the same bug others have reported in that my output didn't work anymore. Also as others reported, removing my USB from the computer and rebooting the KPA fixed it (it is a beta after all).
I wasn't sure when all the discussion started how excited I really was about this update, but figured in theory it should make it easier to get good tones faster.
BOY WAS I RIGHT. I am stunned at how quickly I can take an old profile and tweak it now to a number of great tones without much effort at all!
I have always felt that the KPA was the easiest of the digital amps in the high end market to get a good tone out of, but LQP has made it WAY easier than it was before.
Further, it just seems like every rig that I work on just comes out better than I was ever able to get it before and with very little effort.
So here is my take:
What I thought was going to be an "eh" moment is actually the best firmware update (for me) since I bought the KPA in 2013. From an overall standpoint, my guitar tone is going to be more improved by this update than from any other update ever. Not because the KPA got better tone, but because it let me (someone who is not Michael Britt) get so much more out of a profile by tweaking it than I could before. To be clear, I don't think this will do anything for Mr. Britt since he is one of the most accomplished masters of getting good profiles out of the KPA on the planet. For the rest of us mere mortals, LQP is the biggest improvement in the KPA since its inception IMO. Of course, YMMV.
Now, I have to get back to my KPA and continue to create tweaks of my current list of favorite profiles. Fortunately, my wife and daughter are off in Chicago this weekend so I can make all the noise I want! :).
Thank you ckemper . Great update!
You may have been thinking - correctly - that we can't create our own new tone stacks - we can only choose one of the supplied ones. Otherwise we are free to create profiles and use the new tonestacks to render our own "liquid" profiles - liquid in that they can be operated with the authentic tone and gain controls.
This was my understanding as well.
I will definitely be taking a look at it this weekend!!!
Fortunately (or unfortunately depending on how you look at it), I am not gigging right now.
Great news from Kemper. 10 years ago when I bought my Kemper rack (one of the first off the boat here in the US), I would never have guessed that the company would still be adding value to the product a decade later!
One of my best purchases EVER!
Hi all, a follow up on this. Been using my Kemper powered rack silently for gigs and its been great. Haven't even brought my cab or headrush 108 out to any gigs. No complaints from my band that uses all ears, but my band where some use wedges complain that they can't hear me enough (a complaint Ive never gotten before!) Curious if anybody has had the rare experience of someone telling them they were too quiet?
Yes, I had a lead player that was using IEM's. The issue was that he had an IEM mix where his guitar was up in the mix without his boost for leads. As a result, he wouldn't raise his volume enough (he only liked using his guitar volume pot for volume) on the leads because it sounded too loud to HIS ear mix.
The other issue was that (as well all are well aware here) some tube amps don't get too much louder when you raise the volume going into them, they just distort more..... which doesn't really accomplish the desire of getting the lead above the mix.
When I do a lead, generally a bunch of things happen (if I even stay on the same rig). 1) The output volume goes up ~3-4db. 2) The gain gets a bit higher. 3) The eq gets changed for the lead (which also usually adds some volume to some frequencies as well).
If you are in a band that uses wedges, it is likely that the stage volume is high. The best cure for the people using wedges is that, at the mixer, you send more of your guitar to their wedge mix so they can hear you. This is assuming that the wedges are being run off an aux that you can do this with and not just the main L/R.
If the stage is filled with a loud guitar and base amp and the acoustic drums are also loud, then not having your own amp on stage to be loud on stage is always going to be a problem for others on stage to hear you. The real answer is for all of them to TURN DOWN, not for you to turn up
I bought my KPA Rack specifically for gigging live. At the time (2013) it didn't have a dedicated controller, but I used it for some time with an FCB1010 MIDI controller and a Uno4Kemper ROM chip.
When the Kemper foot controller came out, I replaced the FCB.
It just works. My setup is insanely fast, and the load-out is very light. Performances are very easy to setup and manage for gigs.
It is hard for me to imagine a better gig rig than the KPA.
I don't know how it works too (and i don't mind), but CK announced the mix of a modeler and a profiler with LP, saluted (or denounced ) by competitors. Modelers already exist and provide all the amp's settings....
I assume that one difficulty was to know where the starting point is. As i understand it, the profiler will be able to determine all the knobs position except gain position. From this, we will be able to tweak as we want as on an actual amp..... It's as simple as this for users !
I don't know how the tone stack acts/works too and how CK could marry a profile with a modeling behaviour but it's what we gonna have soon
If you think about it, the KPA has always been a mix of profiling (capturing the sound of the amp) and modeling (providing a set of controls that modify aspects of the tone at a lower level).
The difference between the traditional KPA modeling and the new "Liquid Profile" modeling is that CK is giving us the "easy" knobs to make a single control change multiple aspects of the traditional KPA all at once to simulate the way that one "simple" control would on the original amp.
It's really kinda neat the more I think about it. It is a very logical next step in improving the usability of the KPA IMO.
No improvement in the sound engine itself, just a big improvement in a typical user's ability to get to desired tone faster.
On the KPA (and any modeler) there are dozens (maybe thousands) of ways to make a bad sounding tone. Arguably, KPA has always had the edge over others in its ability to quickly get you to a number of great sounds.
With Liquid Profiling, there should be considerably fewer ways to create crap :).
Not necessarily, eq and volume are linked in my experience. For instance, making a guitar cut through the mix is generally more a matter of eq-ing (mids) than a matter of volume.
True; however, it is rare when an audience member comes up and says "I can't hear the guitar" ;). Still, to your point, what DOES happen is that the guitar is eq'd in too much of a scoop (no mids) that someone thought sounded good alone in the bedroom, but live with the band doesn't cut ..... so it gets turned up ..... resulting in the problem I described above. High stage noise.
Its funny because I think that getting the balance is the relatively easy part that most people can do. You can easily hear if drums are louder than the vocals...although don't get me started on why so many people get it wrong - its sometimes because the person doing it is a guitarist so makes the guitars more prominent ( same from drummer/singer/bass player obviously)! My point is, Joe Public can usually tell..
EQ-ing is about getting the sonic space right ( I think) which is where I would flounder and is more of an engineering background.
Of course the 2 are linked but volume is less of a mystery ( because its just up and down) but e.q, especially mids, I have trouble deciding...Does that make sense?
Lots of time, the problem with volumes is more insidious that meets the eye. Lets take the example where the guitarist stage volume is pretty high.
Microphones aren't smart devices, they simply amplify the sound they hear. If the guitar is louder at the singer's mic than the singer's voice is, guess what gets amplified more?
So you have this person at the mix board getting complaints that "I can't hear the singer" from the crowd. He pulls up the volume on the singer's mic and gets ...... more guitar and a little more singer. He keeps moving the slider up until he gets feedback .... then shrugs and says "That's all I can do".
High stage volume is where good band sound goes to die!
Now the REAL trick isn't getting a soundman that knows this, it is getting one that the band trusts enough to turn everything on stage down so the mix out front sounds good. It is my experience that IEM's make for a much better FOH sound and a much better musician monitoring solution that a stage full of loud monitors. Additionally, my IEM's are a butt ton lighter than any of my wedges :).
Here is my take:
The firmware will not make it possible for the UNIT to create better tones than it was CAPABLE of before the firmware update.
What it MAY do is allow a typical user of the Kemper to more easily create a better tone than they could before.
Lets take the gain example.
We have all seen what happens when you take a high gain profile and lower the gain to get just grit. It sounds ..... not great in many cases. Now, it can be made to sound great, but you have to play with EQ, Clarity, Definition, and a host of other settings to get there.
My guess is that with liquid profiles, if the real amp wouldn't have gotten muddy when you lowered the gain, then it will behave that way on the Kemper.
To me .... this is a big improvement.
Just one-man's opinion
In fact, at rehearsal, it's not the most important, we are in circle and can hear each other. We already have the equipment...
It was an example to show that even the music room's manager doesn't know how to tweak a mix table....
I used to do this, but found that the band members got used to looking at each other at practice. At gigs, everyone got messed up trying to look at the audience when they played and missed cues, and generally felt uncomfortable looking out away from the other band members.
I started practicing with the PA and floor plan setup like we gigged and things got much better. Any issues we had with monitoring or feedback got addressed at practice and there were few surprises at the gig (as we all know, there are always venues where SOMETHING really crazy goes on that no amount of planning can avoid ).
DXR10 is well loved, but your band will need subs with it. DXR12 with a DXS18 sub would be divine, but much bigger than the DXR10.
If you have no monitor for your guitar, you will find it difficult to get good feedback action on your strings (unless the FOH is so loud that it bounces around on stage too). I would argue that you want your FOH to sound good first, and then for your Kemper monitor on-stage to sound good 2nd.
If you already have a Kabinet, you already have great on-stage monitoring. For your FOH, what is your budget? A "good" FOH speaker system will be around 4K. A "really good" FOH speaker system will run more like 6-7K. A touring class FOH pro FOH speaker system will be >10K.
FWIW, I always think that bands spend too little on their FOH speaker system. It's a shame since this has the most effect on how good you sound to the audience.