I think the answer paults gave is what you want. It should behave exactly as if you placed it in front of the amp... well because it IS in front of the amp, which comes after Stomps 1-5. 
Posts by benvigil
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Kemper has many secrets.
There is Artist mode /hidden/ , Pure cabinet etc
In Debug mode is blend cabinet !!!I don´t understand why is it there, if is not supported.
They'll all be gone in the next FW release.
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it would be a crying shame if it becomes a game of limits in place of a push to make this the most versatile option out there.
+1,000,000 on this one. -
I suspect they are simply doing MIDI over ethernet with the new Remote. If so, it's only a matter of time before somebody wiresharks the ethernet connection and figures that out too. Unless Kemper takes active measures to encrypt/obfuscate communications with the Remote, it shouldn't be all that hard.
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I made MIDI converter from CCs to NRPNs. I tried to mimic Remote functions as much as possible by implementing simple state machine into script.
Only single press functions are working. I think this is good proof that it works with MIDI as a basic looper.It does these functions, all on CC#34, values 0-5:
RECORD / PLAY / OVERDUB
STOP / 3x to DELETE
UNDO / REDO
TRIGGER
REVERSE
1/2 TIMEI attached .html page, which everyone can open. You will need Jazz plugin. If you don't have it, the page will give you link to download it.
I am curious how many of you will try it. With Damian, we spent some time finding this out.
Few quick questions about the NRPNs you are sending:- For Play, why are you sending the 0x00 (release) first and the 0x01 (press) second? shouldn't it be the other way around?
- What is the functional difference between issuing the play sequence (0x5D) vs Trigger (0x5A)? Don't they do the same thing?
- For Undo, the script is the sending the same value (0x5D 0x01) as for play. Is that correct?
- Everything from 0x58 thru 0x5E used except for a gap at 0x59... any ideas what that might do, if anything?
Thanks!
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In the MIDI docs, page 11, section "Single Parameter Change". The example is to change the Delay Volume, and you send the following SysEx:
F0 00 20 33 02 7f 01 00 4A 04 40 00 F7
Breaking it down...
F0 00 20 33 02 7f (SysEx header)
01 (function -- i.e. single parameter change)
00 (ignore)
4A 04 (NRPN indicating the parameter to change)
40 00 (NRPN indicating the new value)
F7 (end SysEx)About the NRPNs above.... let's convert the first one... hex to decimal.
4A = 74
04 = 4
NRPN == (74 x 128) + 4 == 94769476 matches the example in the documentation.
Above, the #74 means "Address Page 74", which is for the delay (SEE page 9)
On that same page, Delay Volume is #4.... SOOOO the delay volume is at NRPN 4A 04 (9476). Whew.The value to change it to is the second NRPN (40 00), which is 8192, or 50% of the max of 16384.
So, for example, Reverb Time, would be at address page 75, #6
Which is HEX (4B 06), or decimal 9606.To change it to 50% you would send the SysEx:
F0 00 20 33 02 7f 01 00 4B 06 40 00 F7Etc.
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So what you're telling me is that the looper functionality doesn't require the remote but that Kemper & co have throttled the ability to do that on the new update?
That's correct, but the looper functionality was entirely undocumented and was probably never intended to be found. -
I'am sure that it could be more detailed with real example and explained in order that Newbie people in NRPN sysex could be able to program a button theirselves...
Certainly no offense meant, but NPRN/SysEx communication isn't for newbies. Once you get used to thinking in HEX, the document starts to make sense. But unfortunately, reading the document is a skill unto itself.And there's no easy way to teach you how to "program a button" because every controller does it differently and the vast majority of them do not support NRPN or SysEx for their buttons.
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UNDO:
0xB0,0x63,0x7D,0xB0,0x62,0x5D,0xB0,0x06,0x00,0xB0,0x26,0x01
STOP/ERASE:
0xB0,0x63,0x7D,0xB0,0x62,0x5E,0xB0,0x06,0x00,0xB0,0x26,0x01
0xB0,0x63,0x7D,0xB0,0x62,0x5E,0xB0,0x06,0x00,0xB0,0x26,0x00
Okay so written a different way...RECORD: NRPN #16088 / 1
$B0 $63 $7D (125)
$B0 $62 $58 (88)
$B0 $06 $00 (0)
$B0 $26 $01 (1)STOP RECORDING & PLAY: NRPN #16088 / 0
$B0 $63 $7D (125)
$B0 $62 $58 (88)
$B0 $06 $00 (0)
$B0 $26 $00 (0)UNDO: NRPN #16093 / 1
$B0 $63 $7D (125)
$B0 $62 $5D (93)
$B0 $06 $00 (0)
$B0 $26 $01 (1)STOP/ERASE: NRPN #16094 / 1
$B0 $63 $7D (125)
$B0 $62 $5E (94)
$B0 $06 $00 (0)
$B0 $26 $01 (1)STOP/ERASE: NRPN #16094 / 0
$B0 $63 $7D (125)
$B0 $62 $5E (94)
$B0 $06 $00 (0)
$B0 $26 $00 (0) -
OHHH, I see what you mean. Yeah, good point.
Filter is a better word.
.... which kinda sucks because in all likelihood it took extra work to actively detect and filter based on presence of their own hardware.
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Filter is not the right word. They likely simply removed the code portions that respond to those NRPN commands.
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Guys I am making converter for Jazz plugin, so you can try the looper by yourself with simple CC MIDI commands.
We have also found other commands.
We know how to UNDO, STOP/ERASE.
It's working very very good. And guess what... It's usable even with no visual feedback. No latencies, instant reactions.:)
Can you go ahead and post the NRPN numbers?Thanks!
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No, it is not the same. Control change numbers are used to toggle things on and off. Continous controller cover a range from 0-127, for example to control volume via CC#7.
Program Change (PC) is different but Control Change and Continuous Controller (CC) ARE the same message types, just different use cases. You could use CC messages for on/off messages or for things like a volume or wah sweeping.Regular 7bit CC can be between 0 and 127. Typically, 0 is used for OFF and everything else is considered ON (typically 1, or 127). Kemper uses 1 for ON officially, but will treat anything greater than 1 to be ON.
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I think MIDI activation of the Looper function is a good idea but I can see that the CAT 5 solution is going to be tighter timing wise.
Tighter yes, but we are talking fractions of a millisecond here.DIN MIDI is 31.5 kbits/sec and CC messages are 3 bytes long (if I recall correctly) and have to be sent and received serially before the message content can be registered at the receiving end. Even if there were no other latency in registering the button press in the remote or buffering of the incoming data at the Kemper end, those 24 bits are going to take a bit less than 1 msec to convey a message to the KPA. Realistically - the delay between button click and action in the KPA is more likely to be more than double that so, for accurate timing, it seems far from ideal. Even 100 Mbit ethernet is of the order of1000 times faster.
Even at quadruple that (4ms), it's imperceptible.A super-sensitive user doesn't notice latency until it reaches 25-30 msec, and most people don't even notice a 50ms latency. Hell, the hardware debounce circuitry in any device with switches is going to take AT LEAST 5ms (average is closer to 10-20ms) to accurately register the click depending on the method they use and how good the switches are.
I was reading a post last month where a user was questioning the latency of the footswitches in their pedal switcher (can't remember which one, but it was one of the popular ones) and the manufacturer documented it at 33ms.
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I kinda prefer the black now
But two weeks ago when I bought it, white was all the rage.
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Latency in the MIDI protocol will be sub-millisecond and the difference in transmission over DIN vs CAT5 would not be detectible. Those latencies are dwarfed by the latency incurred processing the data by the Kemper CPU, which would be the same for either protocol.
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Yes, I actually agree that the looper was probably tested initially with MIDI.
But that will still lead many people to an unfortunate conclusion: that MIDI assignments were implemented in software and later removed to sell Remotes.
And I'll say it again, that's a perfectly viable marketing/sales strategy.
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The FW 3.0 deeper view and FW 3.0 addendum has been posted in the downloads section.
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Welcome Ben
What I'd do would be to drive the cabs with my preferred tunes and play along through them. General music programs help calibrate the ear, if that makes sense
Nice presentation picture, BTW
Makes total sense... and thanks!
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I'm posting this here, because I am unable to post to the other thread you linked. I get a session expired on that thread alone and further posts to that thread have stopped. Hmmmmmmmm ... but I can post everywhere else. I won't say any more about that...
There's clearly no technical reason why this can't be done.
Obviously CK and team can choose to reserve this functionality for Remote users only, but with public awareness that this feature was available and then removed leaves Kemper in a somewhat unenviable position:
- On the one hand, they have a reputation of listening to users and delivering solutions and upgrades with every update. So this move to actively remove the "hidden" looper features in FW 3.0 runs contrary to that ethos and leaves a bad taste in your mouth. It would benefit users to make the looper functions available via MIDI with little or no work on their part.
- On the other hand, they have marketed and sold the Remote with "exclusive looper access" being a top-line feature. To simply open up the looper to all users via MIDI would most certainly anger some users. I'm not sure I'd ever use the looper, but if I bought the Remote and part of the purchase motivation was looper access, I'd be pretty upset if it was accessible via MIDI all along.
There's no right or wrong here and Kemper can decide how and when to market and sell their own products and I don't have a problem with either path they take. It's their company, not mine.
That said, knowing the MIDI assignments were implemented in software and later removed in tandem with the availability of the Remote, sure does make it appear as though features were removed to sell more Remotes, which certainly doesn't cast Kemper in a very pleasing light.
