Amp and Cabs first , Drop (the ) Boxes

    Guys,
    I spent a little bit of time playing with the profiles with and without stomp boxes , making 5 rigs combinations out of the same profile and comparing it .
    So, in one side I tried to use minimum of stomps (no boosters and EQ's) where on the other side I put them as much as I can .


    What I realised is that rigs with minimum , or even no EQ's and boosters are much more natural and pleasant to ear than those full of EQ's , boosters , Shapers and so .


    In the case of "plain" rigs scenario , I also find that amp and cab parameters changes are more authoritative and obvious ,than in the case of the rigs with fully occupied chain.


    Visually , I have only few lights on -pre amp section : locked Wah wah always ON ,locked Pure Boster (on or off) ,post amp section : locked Vibrato and Reverb .


    All the rest of dynamics is coming from my Guitar ! :thumbup:


    Also, on this way I think I am closer to the original idea of that profile .


    More, adding lots of stomps may lead to profile identity loss , especially when lots of gain coming from boosters and EQ's is involved ???



    So, I start a big clearance in my rigs , switching off all of fricking boxes and tweaking amp and cabs only .



    My KPA sounds even more closer (if not beyond :P ;) ) the real valve amp .


    Anyone else with the same approach called " Amp and Cabs first , drop the Boxes :thumbup: " (?



    Thanks,
    Zoran

    1988 Branko Radulovic Hand Made Strat in Macedonia (SFRJ)

    2006 Steve Vai vwh moded with SS frets and Sustainac 2006 (Japan)

    2008 Fender YJM , moded (USA)

    2010 Tom Andersons Drop Top 2010 (made in California)

    2017 Charvel GG sig Caramelised Ash (USA)

    2022 Gibson ES 335 2011 Custom Shop Cherry of course ( Memphis)

    Edited 5 times, last by Rescator ().

    Yeah, I can confirm this feeling. I returned to the use of "real" stomp boxes in front of the KPA to tweak the sound in studio and use the KPA "only" as an amp-/cap-sim. Imo the quality of the built-in stomp-boxes, the reverb (here quality) and the delay (here: functionality) is more than improvable. But all in all I didn't bought the KPA for it's stomp-boxes - and for a quick'n'dirty ride on the axe the stomps do fit. 8)

    90% of my profiles are RAW = no modifications and no effects.


    But IMHO are the KPA effects great for everyday use.


    For studio use you would record the raw (and DI) sound anyway.


    Even a guitar recording with a lot of AxeFx or high end reverb is wasted when you find later you need another type of reverb ...

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    Good question Lance !


    BTW, I am not saying KPA effects are bad or anything like that , in contrary they are very good.
    I still have some tailor made rigs for specific sounds and specific songs and guitarists (say Garry Moore, Vai, Pablo, Petrucci etc) which must include heavy use of pedals and effects and to match those grail tones.


    And those rigs sounds very good, sometimes so good that I want to send the tape to those big guys telling them: " Hey , my guitar sounds as good as yours if not better :P "


    Here I want to emphasise the basic and main advantage of KPA -which is rough sound of amp profile , as Armin understand it very well , that's why his profiles are "plain" ones.


    Simply, I think that rough and plain amp profile (when profiling is done well) is much more acceptable for me than when rig includes full chain off all possible pedals and effects one might fit in.


    On that way, basic advantage of KPA - fantastic and natural amp sound-gets diluted .



    Also, heavy use of pedals tend to made rigs to sound the same , if pedal colourization become prevalent.


    Next question is very logic- can we fix this situation by proper tweaking and balance between amp/pedals , or Kemper Team has to do something in regards of it in some reasonably near future ?


    Comments?


    ps
    I don't expect too much out of this, to be honest . .
    I can say the same thing for real amps. Put 3 boosters and 4 EQ 's in the chain , tweak all those pedals to 11, and Mesa will sound as Marshall , Vox like a Fender .
    Or maybe not ??? 8o


    Quote from Guitartone


    What difference is the AFX pedalboard going to make to what Zoran's doing?

    1988 Branko Radulovic Hand Made Strat in Macedonia (SFRJ)

    2006 Steve Vai vwh moded with SS frets and Sustainac 2006 (Japan)

    2008 Fender YJM , moded (USA)

    2010 Tom Andersons Drop Top 2010 (made in California)

    2017 Charvel GG sig Caramelised Ash (USA)

    2022 Gibson ES 335 2011 Custom Shop Cherry of course ( Memphis)

    Edited 2 times, last by Rescator ().

    There are so many parameters in your 'realization' that i'm not sure it's valid.
    You could have tweaked them in a million different ways, reaching a million different sounds - just as you might like one amp more than the other.


    An amp with effects in front is a different amp.
    An amp with different tubes is a different amp. An amp with a different guitar plugged in is a different amp.
    The difference might be subtle but the format of 'rigs' in the Profiler makes a strong point -
    it is not important if you like the amp model or not. The only important thing is if you like the rig - the amp is a means to an end.


    If i absolutely love a Metal-Zone model stomp through a soft-shaper and EQ running into a Blues Jr. for my metal tones, the existence of a Dual Rectifier is irrelevant.



    FWIW, I do agree that the effects in the Profiler can be improved upon.

    "But dignity is difficult to maintain
    stamina requires constant upkeep
    repetition is boring
    and you pay for grace."

    Excellent, thanks for feedback.
    Yes, everything is subjective, so sometime some numbers , doesn't matter how wrong numbers can be, might be applied for better explanation.


    In numbers , there is my subjectivity :
    1. Pure , rough, no-stomps ,solely and well done profile of amp/cab = 101% :thumbup: of joy
    2. Fantastic rig (from the same profile above ) with all necessary stomps engaged (to achieve specific sound) = ? 60, 70 max 80 %, of joy :love: 8|


    Point is that I need both of rigs, pure(1) one and specific(2) one as well.
    How to make 101% in both cases?
    Is this about me (us) like a user(s) , or maybe Kemper can do something .
    They already achieved 101% in fulfilling customers satisfaction in (my) case 1. , what about increasing those 60-80 % to at least 90 % in case number 2. :rolleyes:



    PS
    Let me help you .
    What if we have a chance to profile, say Petrucci sound in full.
    I mean his real ,very own rig in full, amp, stomps, shits etc...
    Can Kemper achieve that specific John's profile or not ?
    That will be now case 1 .
    From KPA perspective it will be just amp/cab -we will not add any stomp -pure JP profile .



    Case 2 is that we profile Mesa amp he use (everyone can buy that specific Mesa amp in the store) , and then add KPA stomps and EQ's in a manner to achieve the JP sound , call that JP rig now.


    Which profile/rig will be "better" and more close to his sound?


    1988 Branko Radulovic Hand Made Strat in Macedonia (SFRJ)

    2006 Steve Vai vwh moded with SS frets and Sustainac 2006 (Japan)

    2008 Fender YJM , moded (USA)

    2010 Tom Andersons Drop Top 2010 (made in California)

    2017 Charvel GG sig Caramelised Ash (USA)

    2022 Gibson ES 335 2011 Custom Shop Cherry of course ( Memphis)

    Edited 4 times, last by Rescator ().


    I will say that for Petrucci for instance, there are also other parameters to achieve his tone : the pick ! I mean this may be irrelevant to some of guys, but is is a key point. I mean, I use for instance a JAZZIIIXL black stiffo and they sound so different of the JazzIII JP signature models than even with the exact profile of Petrucci, the tone will be different.


    I agree with you that with Kemper, I tend not to play with FX anymore. I have my WAH, a Pure booster also (set pre amp to reduce the gain and getting and crunch tone), a pure booster post amp for my leads. I don't like reverbs and I use delays I prefer replacing it by a delay; That's it. For recording the naked tone fits better in the mix.

    A lot of my high gain profiles use the green scream in front. Lately I was messing with a strat and turned off the stomp.... wow, didn't realize what I was missing tone wise. Not saying there isn't a place for the stomp, but it can sure flavor different amps. Was nice to hear different amps in their bare state. :thumbup:

    I find boosters and effects added to high gain take away from the dynamics of the profile. I use them live to add variety and sometimes depth to our sound (3 piece band). I doubt I would want the Axe FX pedal board vs the rack version, it will probably be a lot of extra cables on stage to get the KPA in the loop (if that will even be possible).

    This is also how I use and what I love about the Kemper.


    When I owned a Laney (from around 1962 which I brought with me from London to USA) and a gold top Les Paul, I could achieve the same full Gain sound that I now get with the Kemper. I never really felt I needed stomp boxes for most music I played. Just the combination of a great guitar and amp.

    Quote from guenterhaas

    Yes, think so, too, I don't use a booster or distorted stomp box at all.


    I find this to be the case with *real* amps and pedals too. I still have (really don't know why) a bunch of great amps. The best ones are always negatively impacted by any pedal I've ever used in front of them. That's not to say that I haven't still used them anyway to craft a particular tone...it's just that the nuance, touch sensitivity, and dynamics always seem to suffer.


    With the Kemper, I rarely have to use any kind of gain pedal to achieve a particular tone....I just choose a different profile to meet my needs. So, basically, the Kemper acts like a *real* amp in this way also. 8)